M&P15T

[JessicaB]

Hello

I've had a M&P 15-22 for quite awhile now and would like to get an AR for range/SHTF. I'm considering the M&P15T and a few Rock River Arms ARs.

I can't seem to find any specs for the M&P15T as far as barrel, bolt, feed ramp, trigger, twist, etc.

Being a S&W forum I'm assuming most people are partial toward S&W but are there any opinions about RRA?

Thanks

 

[cyphertext]

Can't help you on the RRA, but we can surely answer any questions you may have on the 15T.

Product: Model M&P15T - 5.56 mm, Tactical

 

[JessicaB]

Is this is a carbine, mid or rifle length gas system? What trigger does this have?

 

[cyphertext]

Is this is a carbine, mid or rifle length gas system? What trigger does this have?

It is a carbine and has a standard, mil-spec type trigger.

 

[JessicaB]

Are there any issues as far as carbine length versus mid length gas systems? I've heard that carbine tends to have some issues.

 

[cyphertext]

Not sure where you are getting your info, but consider this... The US military has thousands of carbines in service... The M4 is a select fire carbine... We don't field any mid-length gas system M16/M4 rifles that I am aware of.

 

[bikendan]

I love my 15T!
the only complaint is the weight of the hand guard, but I love the M&P logo stuff on it.

 

[AGoyette]

Jessica,
I too looked at numerous AR's before I bought mine. I had a list of wants and picked the one that best fit that list. I looked at Rock River, Daniel Defense, Colt, Sig., etc. Some fit my wish list better than others. I ended up with the S&W VTAC II. While it did not have everything, it did have the big (as in expensive) things covered. I love my rifle and I do not regret the decision. BTW, mine is a mid length gas system. After I shot a few rounds though my daughter's carbine length AR my should was tender. I can shoot over a hundred rounds through my mid length gas rifle and no tenderness.

 

[cyphertext]

If your shoulder is tender after a few rounds of 5.56, you are not holding the rifle correctly... there just isn't that much recoil.


I think the "softer shooting" effect of the mid length gas system is largely a placebo effect. There is a little difference, but not enough to matter.

 

[JaPes]

<Puts on flame proof suit>

Jessica, here's my opinion. Unless you are comparing entry level rifles or rifles at the $1300 range on up, AR-15's are mostly the same. If this will be your first AR-15 just make sure to buy one from a well-known brand name manufacturer that has the resources to back their warranty and fully support their customer service department.

I don't own RRA AR-15's but I have friends who do. It's not unusual to find a RRA owner here in Illinois. With the standard RRA AR-15 setup (traditional handguards, standard furniture, etc), they're like any other AR-15. When you step up to the models that have different handguards, grips, stocks, etc., RRA AR-15's tend to be heavy as all heck.

I think the "softer shooting" effect of the mid length gas system is largely a placebo effect. There is a little difference, but not enough to matter.

I've shot a bone stock carbine length gas system M&P 15 and a bone stock mid-length gas system M&P 15. My experience supports Cyphertext's statement. The difference in recoil impulse is very very very minute. Most of the claimed difference is placebo effect.

The practical advantage to having a mid-length gas system over a carbine length gas system are:

1. The mid-length gas system necessitates a longer handguard. A longer handguard gives the marksman more real estate to choose a comfortable off hand grip position.

2. If using an A2 front sight post or railed gas block, a mid-length gas system gives the marksman a longer iron sight radius. The longer the iron sight radius, the better the potential for precision and accuracy.

 

[AGoyette]

If your shoulder is tender after a few rounds of 5.56, you are not holding the rifle correctly... there just isn't that much recoil.


I think the "softer shooting" effect of the mid length gas system is largely a placebo effect. There is a little difference, but not enough to matter.

I was holding the rifle correctly Cyphertext. My daughter's AR was not the first rifle I have shot. I have also shot shotguns with both birdshot and slugs. The butt stock snugly against the shoulder, while I leaned into the rifle.
Shooting a carbine length and mid length gas system, I do not feel the difference while shooting them. It is just the next day, the shoulder was a little tender after shooting the carbine. Same ammo. Also I shot either 20 or 30 rounds when I shot the daughters AR (I don't remember if I bought 2 or 3 boxes).

 

[Maddmax]

Shooting a carbine length and mid length gas system, I do not feel the difference while shooting them. It is just the next day, the shoulder was a little tender after shooting the carbine. Same ammo. Also I shot either 20 or 30 rounds when I shot the daughters AR (I don't remember if I bought 2 or 3 boxes).

It's kind of like walking. We walk everyday. But go for a solid 5 mile walk (if you don't do it everyday) and you'll have "new" sore muscles.

 

[JessicaB]

<Puts on flame proof suit>

Jessica, here's my opinion. Unless you are comparing entry level rifles or rifles at the $1300 range on up, AR-15's are mostly the same. If this will be your first AR-15 just make sure to buy one from a well-known brand name manufacturer that has the resources to back their warranty and fully support their customer service department.

I don't own RRA AR-15's but I have friends who do. It's not unusual to find a RRA owner here in Illinois. With the standard RRA AR-15 setup (traditional handguards, standard furniture, etc), they're like any other AR-15. When you step up to the models that have different handguards, grips, stocks, etc., RRA AR-15's tend to be heavy as all heck.



I've shot a bone stock carbine length gas system M&P 15 and a bone stock mid-length gas system M&P 15. My experience supports Cyphertext's statement. The difference in recoil impulse is very very very minute. Most of the claimed difference is placebo effect.

The practical advantage to having a mid-length gas system over a carbine length gas system are:

1. The mid-length gas system necessitates a longer handguard. A longer handguard gives the marksman more real estate to choose a comfortable off hand grip position.

2. If using an A2 front sight post or railed gas block, a mid-length gas system gives the marksman a longer iron sight radius. The longer the iron sight radius, the better the potential for precision and accuracy.

...and the weight issue is something I'm thinking about. There is a gun show about an hour or so away from my locale in 2 weeks that I am going to. I did notice that the RRA ARs I am looking at are 7.2 lb and 7.0 lb which compared to the M&P15T is a bit heavier. Would that difference in weight be noticeable for a woman?

Also on the topic of carbine vs. middy are parts (either for mod or repair) readily available for both?

 

[cyphertext]

...and the weight issue is something I'm thinking about. There is a gun show about an hour or so away from my locale in 2 weeks that I am going to. I did notice that the RRA ARs I am looking at are 7.2 lb and 7.0 lb which compared to the M&P15T is a bit heavier. Would that difference in weight be noticeable for a woman?

Also on the topic of carbine vs. middy are parts (either for mod or repair) readily available for both?

They are all going to be substantially heavier than your 15-22. The weight differences are noticeable by a man, so I am sure it would be the same for a woman. However, when I say noticeable, it doesn't equate to unusable.

Which RRA rifles are you looking at? Do these other rifles have quad rails? If so, why do you want quad rails? If you are concerned about weight, then you won't be hanging a bunch of garbage off the rifle, so you really shouldn't need a quad rail... plus, they are bulky... the new keymod slim rails are much better IMO, as they are slimmer, lighter, and allow you to still put accessories where you want them.

On carbine vs. middy, the only difference is where the gas port is drilled in the barrel and the length of the gas tub. Bolt, BCG, trigger, receivers, etc are all the same parts.

 

[JaPes]

I did notice that the RRA ARs I am looking at are 7.2 lb and 7.0 lb which compared to the M&P15T is a bit heavier. Would that difference in weight be noticeable for a woman?

I would think that would be up to you. Regardless of gender, everyone is built different. I've seen some pretty small dudes. I've also seen some pretty tall women. If you pick up any rifle and can't hold it in an offhand standing shooting position for long, then the rifle isn't for you. If you find the rifle that fits you just right but you lack the strength to hold it up, then maybe it's time to change yourself to fit the rifle. Do some light weightlifting, nothing crazy. Just a little bit goes a long way.

If you're carrying a rifle over long distances, weight really becomes an issue. The AR-15 was designed to be humped over long distances. I think my lightweight AR-15 build is about 6.5 pounds loaded. I haven't put it on a fish scale, this is just my perception. My IWI Tavor unloaded, without optic, is 8lbs. It wasn't designed to be carried long distances. It was designed for urban combat.

Think about how you plan on using your rifle, then outfit one to that intended role.

Also on the topic of carbine vs. middy are parts (either for mod or repair) readily available for both?

Yes. The only difference between the carbine v.s. middy direct gas impingement system is the length of the gas tube and position of the gas port.

 

[MichiganScott]

Which RRA rifles are you looking at? Do these other rifles have quad rails? If so, why do you want quad rails? If you are concerned about weight, then you won't be hanging a bunch of garbage off the rifle, so you really shouldn't need a quad rail... plus, they are bulky... the new keymod slim rails are much better IMO, as they are slimmer, lighter, and allow you to still put accessories where you want them.

None of my AR's have quad rails because I don't hang a bunch of imported Chinese trash on my guns. The guns are lighter and I don't chew up my hands on sharp aluminum.

The difference in weight between the Rock River and S&W rifles of the same configuration is insignificant. You're looking at 3-4 ounces in most cases. However, RRA is starting to build a line of lightweight rivers down around the low 6lb. range.

The real advantage of the mid-length gas system is not the perceived recoil reduction, but the decreased malfunction rate. Hang around any AR board and you will find a bunch of threads about "tuning" the carbine with different weight buffers, carriers, springs, etc. to get perfect functioning. Mid-length just seem to run better stock. However, my experience has been that the majority of the malfs have been shooter induced in the carbine by the tuning process itself and the only place a mid-length is truly required is in 6.8spc. We have posters wanting to change parts to increase reliability without ever firing a round.

Since both lines of rifles cost about the same and are of the same quality, buy the one that appeals to you most emotionally. There has always been at least a little bit of emotion in all my firearms purchases.

 

[cyphertext]

However, my experience has been that the majority of the malfs have been shooter induced in the carbine by the tuning process itself and the only place a mid-length is truly required is in 6.8spc. We have posters wanting to change parts to increase reliability without ever firing a round.

Yep!

I was on a Ruger board the other day and this cat changed from standard hand guards to a free float set up. In doing so, he had to change to a low profile gas block. Once he made all of his changes, the rifle was malfunctioning, so he drilled out the gas port... and this was before he ever fired it to see if it functioned properly out of the box!

 

[JessicaB]

I would think that would be up to you. Regardless of gender, everyone is built different. I've seen some pretty small dudes. I've also seen some pretty tall women. If you pick up any rifle and can't hold it in an offhand standing shooting position for long, then the rifle isn't for you. If you find the rifle that fits you just right but you lack the strength to hold it up, then maybe it's time to change yourself to fit the rifle. Do some light weightlifting, nothing crazy. Just a little bit goes a long way.

If you're carrying a rifle over long distances, weight really becomes an issue. The AR-15 was designed to be humped over long distances. I think my lightweight AR-15 build is about 6.5 pounds loaded. I haven't put it on a fish scale, this is just my perception. My IWI Tavor unloaded, without optic, is 8lbs. It wasn't designed to be carried long distances. It was designed for urban combat.

Think about how you plan on using your rifle, then outfit one to that intended role.



Yes. The only difference between the carbine v.s. middy direct gas impingement system is the length of the gas tube and position of the gas port.

It's going to be a range/SHTF AR. I've got a red dot that I want to put on it. Depending on what I get I may change the butt and/or grip but other than that I'm not really sure what I'll change.