M&P45 - MA-compliant+Apex or 48 State?

[TTSH]

I made the title as descriptive as I could in the space provided, but here is the whole story:

I am mostly an all-metal gun guy but I am having a difficult time here in the highly-restricted People's Republic of Massachusetts finding a full-size .45 for myself in other than 1911 SA form.

I've been looking for an S&W 4506-1 in state for 2 years, but that's a lost cause (and we can't import pre-list guns without a previous PRM ownership pedigree).

I've been waiting for the SIG P227 to become certified for sale in the PRM, but the new list just came out and the P227 still isn't on it.

I even tried to buy an HK45 (yes, plastic!), but fell somewhat short of the steep asking price.

So I finally decided to try a full-size M&P45 the other day and I think that's the way for me to go, plastic frame notwithstanding.

The issue is this: MA-compliant handguns require a 10+ pound trigger so it's virtually a certainty that I will have to add an Apex kit to get the trigger back down equal to my beloved 3rd Gens.

However, I found someone in state with a slightly used (like new) "free state" M&P45 with a 6.5 pound trigger who is willing to sell it to me for about the same money as the new MA-compliant M&P45 plus the cost of an Apex kit. Hmmm. Very interesting.

And so my question is this: Is the free state M&P45 as shipped going to have as good a trigger as the MA-compliant M&P45 plus the Apex kit? Or am I better off for equal money getting the MA-compliant M&P45 and adding the Apex kit?

Thanks for any and all relevant help!

 

[AGoyette]

I say get the MA compliant 45 and add the Apex kit yourself. I love the feel of my guns with the Apex kits in them. My 9c's have the DCAEK kit in plus the polymer triggers and the 2 5" Pros and the CORE all have the FSS kit in. I left the stock trigger spring in on all of them. Plus you can just put the stock parts in if you needed.
I would also suggest that if you go this route, I would shoot it for a few hundred rounds (500-700) first to break it in and to get used to the gun. Though with that trigger pull, it would be hard. I have heard nothing but great things about the M&P 45.

 

[TTSH]

I say get the MA compliant 45 and add the Apex kit yourself. I love the feel of my guns with the Apex kits in them. My 9c's have the DCAEK kit in plus the polymer triggers and the 2 5" Pros and the CORE all have the FSS kit in. I left the stock trigger spring in on all of them. Plus you can just put the stock parts in if you needed.

I guess one of the key questions here is: Will an Apex kit put into a free state model yield the exact same result as an Apex kit put into a MA-compliant model? In other words, in the end, will I want an Apex kit added either way?

I would also suggest that if you go this route, I would shoot it for a few hundred rounds (500-700) first to break it in and to get used to the gun. Though with that trigger pull, it would be hard. I have heard nothing but great things about the M&P 45.

Yeah, no fun at all... just frustration... with a MA-compliant trigger. The best deal I can get includes the Apex kit put in at the time of purchase, but there may be some wiggle room there. Still, I doubt I can afford (both time and money) that much break-in shooting. I don't reload and range time has been at a real premium all year. Can't see it getting any better next year either.

 

[Rastoff]

I feel your pain as I'm in a "list" state too.

Wont the gun from out of state need to meet the trigger pull requirements?

Regardless, the way the Apex kit goes in, it doesn't matter what the original pull weight is. The kit changes the sear and springs. That's what makes up the pull. So, either gun will have the same pull weight once you add the Apex kit.

You will want the kit on a "free" state gun anyway. I did it to my M&P 45 and love the result where I didn't like the stock trigger.


Now, why no love for the 1911?

 

[TTSH]

I feel your pain as I'm in a "list" state too. Wont the gun from out of state need to meet the trigger pull requirements?

It's already legally-owned within MA, so it can be transferred FTF between MA license holders. The "lists" do not apply to FTF transfers between MA license holders. In this case, it might also be transferable through an FFL as well since "used" guns are not usually documented by SKU numbers as brand new guns received from distributors are. Rather, used guns are more usually tracked by manufacturer and model name/number alone. Unless the FFL questions the gun's characteristics, without the original SKU, the used gun is likely good to go.

Regardless, the way the Apex kit goes in, it doesn't matter what the original pull weight is. The kit changes the sear and springs. That's what makes up the pull. So, either gun will have the same pull weight once you add the Apex kit.

You will want the kit on a "free" state gun anyway. I did it to my M&P 45 and love the result where I didn't like the stock trigger.

Okay, thank you. That's a key point. If true, it looks like the MA-compliant gun will be the better way to go.

Now, why no love for the 1911?

Plenty of love for the 1911. I own two already and, if all goes according to plan, I will probably be adding a third one to the collection next year. But variety is the spice of life... and I've been spoiled by my 3rd Gens.

 

[icemn]

I'm in MA and had a free state M&P 45c that had an 8 lb trigger. It got the apex dcaek and it was noticeably better. I'd recommend you go with the MA compliant and put in the Apex kit. Also if you ever want to sell it to a dealer in state, you'll probably have an easier time.

 

[TTSH]

I'm in MA and had a free state M&P 45c that had an 8 lb trigger. It got the apex dcaek and it was noticeably better. I'd recommend you go with the MA compliant and put in the Apex kit. Also if you ever want to sell it to a dealer in state, you'll probably have an easier time.

Okay, another vote for the MA-compliant version with an Apex kit. Already looks like a trend.

I hope I never have to sell it through an FFL, but as it's been explained to me, if the model name/number of the used gun already in MA is on the EOPS list, most FFLs won't get real picky about the AG's requirements. And if they did, it sure wouldn't help to have an Apex kit in there. But if it were a problem, you are right: the gun would probably have to be sold and transferred to a free state.

 

[Johnmuratore]

I've got a Mass-compliant 45c with the DCAEK installed.
Also have an out of state 40c with about the same trigger pull without the DCAEK.
There is no comparison.

You'll love the 45 with the DCAEK.

 

[presspics]

Get the Mass gun. I escaped from Mass and live in NH now. I still work in Mass and do a lot of trigger work on M&P's. I can give you a great trigger without the Apex parts.

 

[TTSH]

Update...

Okay, here is where I stand as of late this afternoon:

After deciding on the MA-complaint model per the suggestions here, I went to buy it today and my preferred and lowest priced dealer is now out of stock on them. He has the compact but not the full-size. But I want the full-size. He also basically told me to not hold my breath waiting for one.

Went to three other MA FFLs and all out of stock there too. Got some weird stories about recalls and shortages and available-to-cops-only and Houlton, ME vs. Springfield-made guns. Crazy sounding stuff but I'll investigate further before saying these folks were purposely misleading me.

Finally went back to the range for clarification on the gun I had test-fired... and indeed, as I had suspected, it was a free state gun. So I did some comparison testing with a MA-compliant gun and also with an Apex-fixed gun.

Suffice to say that the MA-compliant gun's trigger was obscenely bad... worse than my other MA-compliant triggers by a wide margin. I cannot explain why it was so bad, but it was bad. I then tried a compact and it was even worse.

Bottom line: I am now back re-considering the used free state version in my original post. Yes, the Apex-fixed gun was the best of the bunch, or so it would appear. But with my lowest cost dealer out of stock, finding and buying a MA-compliant model from another more expensive dealer and adding the Apex kit to it now starts to get very expensive in my "economically-challenged" little world.

Not going to do anything immediately. Need to step back and reconsider the whole deal... and figure out what the heck those dealers are talking about.

 

[scattershot]

Personally, I wouldn't pay over new price for a used gun, but that's just me. You can save some money by being patient. Check Bud's Guns online, they have some commie state guns from time to time. Then install the Apex kit.

 

[TTSH]

Personally, I wouldn't pay over new price for a used gun, but that's just me. You can save some money by being patient. Check Bud's Guns online, they have some commie state guns from time to time. Then install the Apex kit.

Like so many others, Bud's won't ship to MA.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/feeds/state_reg/massachusetts_restrictions.pdf

Very few out-of-state dealers even stock MA-compliant guns and they will almost never ship a free state gun to Massachusetts except possibly for a LEO.

The used free state gun in question is brand new for all intents and purposes. But yes, you are right. I think it may be time for a little friendly negotiating!

 

[icemn]

Check your PM.

 

[scattershot]

Interested how you make out. Please let us know.

 

[TTSH]

Interested how you make out. Please let us know.

This may need to be put off until after an upcoming trip. I tried again yesterday to find an FFL with either a brand new one in stock at a price I could afford... or at least a willingness to do a transfer for me without major negative vibes and/or a punitive fee. Struck out on both counts.

The problem may solve itself if I am just patient enough. For whatever odd reason, this isn't the best time to be shopping for a full-size M&P 45 in Massachusetts.

 

[dmiyak]

Grabagun.com has the MA-compliant model. I'm not sure if the price is good or not.

Smith and Wesson M&P 45 MA 109356 45A 4.5 10R Online Gun Store

 

[TTSH]

Grabagun.com has the MA-compliant model. I'm not sure if the price is good or not.

Smith and Wesson M&P 45 MA 109356 45A 4.5 10R Online Gun Store

Yep. A couple members have already pointed out some on-line dealers that claim to carry MA-compliant guns and aren't afraid to transfer a gun into MA. And the prices are fine.

My problem is with the local dealers I deal with who are all very stubborn (and even nasty at times) about transferring in current guns bought from on-line dealers. They want the profit, not the transfer fee. And I can't force them to do it. Some double and triple the fee for such transfers.

If this was a one-time thing, I wouldn't care. But I deal with these dealers all the time and have no desire to force them into something they don't want to do and alienate them. The simple answer is for me to wait until my preferred low-priced dealer gets them back in stock. Too bad he couldn't tell me when that might be.

 

[CVF]

The M&P .45 is definitely a rare one in these parts, I have only seen two in all the LGS I visit and I'm still kicking myself for not jumping on either.

Good luck.

 

[TTSH]

The M&P .45 is definitely a rare one in these parts, I have only seen two in all the LGS I visit and I'm still kicking myself for not jumping on either.

Good luck.

Well, I found one at MFS and another one out in West Springfield, both for more than I can afford to pay right now with so many other obligations. Either I'll wait for my preferred and least expensive dealer to get them back in stock or I'll keep looking for a dealer who will transfer one in for me without a big song and dance or punitive fee. If you know of a MA dealer who will do the latter, please PM me the name.

 

[CVF]

I won't be able to get to any of the shops today but I'll ask around.

 

[Squarebutt]

Another reason to buy the new MA compliant model is the lifetime warranty for the original owner. Keep the original trigger parts in case you need to send it back to Roosevelt Ave. Good luck in your quest. I'm out in western MA, and I'll keep an eye out, too.

 

[Johnmuratore]

TTSH
Check Bob's Guns and Archery in Webster, MA.
He's got a pretty good inventory and I got my 45c there a short while ago. If I'm not mistaken, he had a couple of the full-sized 45s in stock. He also can do the Apex work if you prefer.

 

[TTSH]

Another reason to buy the new MA compliant model is the lifetime warranty for the original owner. Keep the original trigger parts in case you need to send it back to Roosevelt Ave. Good luck in your quest. I'm out in western MA, and I'll keep an eye out, too.

Check Bob's Guns and Archery in Webster, MA.
He's got a pretty good inventory and I got my 45c there a short while ago. If I'm not mistaken, he had a couple of the full-sized 45s in stock. He also can do the Apex work if you prefer.

Thanks guys. Bob's is a good place and I hope to do some business with them someday. Their prices can be very competitive when they run their sales.

Not having sent any guns back to S&W recently, I'm not sure how strictly the "original owner" thing is enforced. And as mentioned above, it's also not clear to me what the Apex kit might do to the lifetime factory warranty. You could make a pretty good case that I might be better off just buying the free state gun (albeit pre-owned) and leaving it intact if I can live with the free state trigger vs. the Apex kit.

Regardless, I think I'm going to stick to my plan for now and either wait for my preferred dealer to get them back in stock *or" find a dealer who will do an incoming transfer without a big hassle or a crazy fee. Money for this purchase is very tight. Conversely, time is on my side for this one.

 

[jb2009]

Hello, What part of the state are you in ?
I know nothing about the M&P 45, but i had a hankering for a Walther PPS..
As I often do, I call around gun shops, bingo, one in stock out comes the cc
Big mistake, It would be a couple days before I could go pick up the gun..
I arrive and checking the gun over, trigger felt terrible..
No lie, dealer pulled out scale, 16.5# yowsa,,,I had heard they were bad
Just not that bad, I knew they made two differant sears and was thinking
That I could get one and trigger job....bottom line...Not one person would
Touch the trigger, Nor would Smith sell me the light sear...!!
I have no idea how complicated the M&P trigger is..
But you may want to take this into consideration...John

 

[TTSH]

Hello, What part of the state are you in ?
I know nothing about the M&P 45, but i had a hankering for a Walther PPS..
As I often do, I call around gun shops, bingo, one in stock out comes the cc
Big mistake, It would be a couple days before I could go pick up the gun..
I arrive and checking the gun over, trigger felt terrible..
No lie, dealer pulled out scale, 16.5# yowsa,,,I had heard they were bad
Just not that bad, I knew they made two differant sears and was thinking
That I could get one and trigger job....bottom line...Not one person would
Touch the trigger, Nor would Smith sell me the light sear...!!
I have no idea how complicated the M&P trigger is..
But you may want to take this into consideration...John

I am in Eastern MA, and yes... the triggers on the MA-compliant guns are horrible. Hence my consideration of that free state gun or the need to install an Apex kit.

 

[jb2009]

Not that I am a fan of them, but seems quite a few police return glocks in 45 auto are hitting the dealers in Mass....I am not sure how the trigger is on them or if they are modified to the " cant pull stage "
But that might be an option....John

 

[formernuke]

Having a M&P with the Apex trigger (I also live in MA) and having tried an M&P from a free state without the Apex (free state factory trigger) I would go for the new one with the Apex kit.

First you are getting a new gun and second the trigger will be better.

Depending on where you live I might know a good gunsmith to install the kit, let me know if your interested.

 

[TTSH]

Not that I am a fan of them, but seems quite a few police return glocks in 45 auto are hitting the dealers in Mass....I am not sure how the trigger is on them or if they are modified to the " cant pull stage "
But that might be an option....John

Hi John - Glocks are a pain in the butt here in Massachusetts. Because of our various restrictions, any Glock that you're going to find is going to be crazy expensive. The AG's rules say that you can only buy older Gen 1 and Gen 2 guns plus a few early Gen 3 guns that were made before the cut-off date. Newer ones are available through private sales and through a small handful of rebellious dealers but you pay through the nose for them.

Truth is that I actually want the S&W M&P 45 despite the crazy trigger issues... a long story for some other time.

 

[TTSH]

Having a M&P with the Apex trigger (I also live in MA) and having tried an M&P from a free state without the Apex (free state factory trigger) I would go for the new one with the Apex kit.

First you are getting a new gun and second the trigger will be better.

Depending on where you live I might know a good gunsmith to install the kit, let me know if your interested.

Oh, I understand all that. But money is a big issue right now (consider me more than a little "financially challenged" at the moment) and that is driving my decision making on this. Per my post above, I'm most likely going to wait for my preferred (and lowest cost) dealer to get the MA-compliant model back in stock and eventually I'll do the Apex kit myself as time and finances allow.

If only that free state gun were just a little bit cheaper, I think I would go for it just to take the pressure off having to get the Apex kit right away. But so far, no dice.

 

[dimitri]

I'm in MA and bought a 9mm shield, and 9mm FS, both MA guns. I managed to get my hands on a non-MA M&P 45 midsize. I put Apex DCAEK on both 9mms, and their triggers are a lot better than the free state version. If you are comfortable installing the DCAEK yourself, buy the MA model and install the apex kit. Plus, I think it is fun taking the gun apart and seeing how it all works.