Which loads shoot to POA for you & your sweet Model 10? If you could mention which Model 10 or earlier you have. Thanks guys.
M10 Operators
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If you'll get just about any 158 grain cast SWC and load it with 4 grs. 231 or 3.3-3.5 grs. Bullseye, it will likely be accurate and shoot to point of aim at 25 yds or closer. A factory standard pressure load with a 158 grain cast SWC or round nose bullet should do the same.
My gun is Model 10 that was new in about 1972. I'm not a dash guy; can't tell you that without looking, but I doubt the differences are of significance.
My gun is Model 10 that was new in about 1972. I'm not a dash guy; can't tell you that without looking, but I doubt the differences are of significance.
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ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I agree, A 158gr LSWC over 4.0gr W231. That load is very accurate in all my 38/357 revolvers. That includes a 4" M&P pre M10.
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SGT ROCK 11B
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158 grain LSWC
My favorite is 3.5 grains of Bullseye because you will get 2000 reloads from a pound of powder.
My favorite is 3.5 grains of Bullseye because you will get 2000 reloads from a pound of powder.
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I get slightly (very slightly) better accuracy overall with the 3.5 Bullseye load.
OP
Thanks guys. I use a HP38/W231 in many 38 Special loads. I also like Promo because of cost. I'm out of Bullseye.
Alk8944
US Veteran
An M&P is an M&P, one model from 1899 to today. The .38 Special cartridge has been loaded with a 158 grain bullet at from 750-900 fps ever since 1899, and most factory loads of this weight, regardless of bullet type, will shoot very close to the sights at 25 yards with any gun of any barrel length made during this time period if the shooter is competent! If it does this at 25 yards it will do as well at any intermediate distance.
I have never understood people who shoot groups
at 5 or 7 yards and compare them, and think they are any indicator of the guns accuracy!I have numerous .38 caliber S&Ws and Colts, from about 1912 to late 80s, they all generally shoot equally well!
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I little know powder/158gr bullet combo for the 38spl is international clays.
International clays got in trouble with the lite bullet weight for caliber loads (IE 125gr bullets for 38spl/200gr bullets for 44cal/45cal's).
3.5gr of international clays will hold it's own against anything out there.
As with any low pressure load case capacity plays a huge roll. Couple that with higher pressure loads tend to do better accuracy wise. How many times have you experienced/saw posted the upper end of the load burns cleaner, is more consistent and accurate??
WC's seat deeper aiding in taking case capacity out of play.
Same weight powder charge:
international clays fills the case 16% more than bullseye and 33% more than ww231.
It burns slower than bullseye and faster then ww231.
The 16% more case fill takes the slower burn of the bullseye vs international clays out of play. The end result is both are extremely accurate with the international clays having more velocity and more of a push recoil wise.
6-shot groups @ 50ft. Operator error comes into play with throwing shots. Groups shot with a 686.
my only model10 & yes it shoots bugholes also.
International clays got in trouble with the lite bullet weight for caliber loads (IE 125gr bullets for 38spl/200gr bullets for 44cal/45cal's).
3.5gr of international clays will hold it's own against anything out there.
As with any low pressure load case capacity plays a huge roll. Couple that with higher pressure loads tend to do better accuracy wise. How many times have you experienced/saw posted the upper end of the load burns cleaner, is more consistent and accurate??
WC's seat deeper aiding in taking case capacity out of play.
Same weight powder charge:
international clays fills the case 16% more than bullseye and 33% more than ww231.
It burns slower than bullseye and faster then ww231.
The 16% more case fill takes the slower burn of the bullseye vs international clays out of play. The end result is both are extremely accurate with the international clays having more velocity and more of a push recoil wise.
6-shot groups @ 50ft. Operator error comes into play with throwing shots. Groups shot with a 686.
my only model10 & yes it shoots bugholes also.
- Joined
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An M&P is an M&P, one model from 1899 to today. The .38 Special cartridge has been loaded with a 158 grain bullet at from 750-900 fps ever since 1899, and most factory loads of this weight, regardless of bullet type, will shoot very close to the sights at 25 yards with any gun of any barrel length made during this time period if the shooter is competent! If it does this at 25 yards it will do as well at any intermediate distance.
I have never understood people who shoot groups
I have numerous .38 caliber S&Ws and Colts, from about 1912 to late 80s, they all generally shoot equally well!
That close up (and worthless) determination of accuracy is promoted in some paper magazine articles and it's become an Internet forum standard. These guys don't know that the poorest of ammo and guns are accurate up close and all shooters are highly skilled.
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OP
I have plenty of good loads. My 1050 is set up to load this cartridge. I was only wondering what shot to the sight at 25 yards for others.
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Loads that shoot to point of aim at 25 yards were addressed in the early responses to this thread; at least I thought they were. You'll get a little variance from gun to gun.
Also a firm and consistent grip will bring point of impact down. A looser grip will make groups rise. A two-handed hold vs. using one hand can make a big difference; several inches at 25 yards. You can't depend on the gun to do it all; a shooter's skill or lack of it has a great deal of bearing on all this.
I generally shoot Bullseye style (one hand) single-action at 25 yards. Most revolver shooters nowadays use both hands in a Weaver-style stance. Do what suits you best.
AJ
US Veteran
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
That's a heck-of-a nice gun there AJ. Good looking target too...
AJ
US Veteran
Thank you. Was made by A.F.Behlert. If you want to know the story behind it, PM me. Good one!
Biggfoot44
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158 Magna style commercial cast with 3.2gr 231 is about 50 fps slower than factory 158 RN from back in the Revolver Era . But very consistent velocity , and capable of 1.0 inch @ 25 yd ( if the gun & shooter are capable) .
4.5 Unique and a 158 grain cast SWC works for me.
OP
Thank you oldtanker & biggfoot. Love success stories.
