M1917 Mystery

[smoothshooter]

Is this a prank post? That revolver is not legal without a
serial number. Hope you didn't pay for it.

I was wondering about that myself.
Or just stamp your own serial number on it and get on with life.
With old guns like that that were sold all over the world, and had special runs of them made for various governments and owned/issued to several individuals and organizations, how could anyone nowadays be able to prove that the number you made up is not legit?
Most or all of the people who ever carried or used that gun are probably dead now anyway.
There are hundreds of thousands of guns in the US that sell each year with a 4473 filled out on them, and whose previous owners are unknown. Nobody is ever going to do a trace of a serial # on that gun to find out it’s entire history.

 

[smoothshooter]

The US Gov't mandated that Handguns (any caliber) and CF Rifles be ser#'d by their mfg'r in Jan/1958. That to start taking place as of July of 1958.
Exempt from ser#'g were Shotguns, and RF longguns.
The GCA68 added the 2 exempt catagorys to the 'must be ser#'d' list in 12/1968.
So as of that date, all catagorys of firearms were supposed to be ser#'d by their manufacturer in the USA.
Imports as well required.

The Fed Law that made it a Felony to Remove, Alter or Obliterate a Manufacturers applied ser# on a firearm was passed in the Federal Firearms Act of 1938.
It's been in effect ever since either in that law or the GCA68 that took it's place.
It also covers the possession of a firearm w/ser# so altered/removed/etc.

Yes there are instances when the ATF and the US Revenue Dept (it's predecessor) will/would restamp an obliterated/removed ser#. Or re-issue a new ser# usually in the case of a recovered-stolen firearm.
But it's not an everyday occurance and you can't count on it happening when presenting one to them.

It even took a big deal meeting of the minds and several weeks of hand wringing some yrs back by the Agency to decide wether Bonnie Parker's Colt DS with the ser# filed off would be issued a new ATF ser# so it could be legally auctioned off to save the historical piece.
They agreed to do so.
A 'No' decision would have simply sent it to the crusher.
Or maybe it would have ended up in the private collection of a Gov't Agency,,they seem to be able to keep & possess such things and keep us safe from them.

What law is violated if someone ADDS a number?
The current owner obliterated nothing.
If it were mine, I would examine the entire gun inside and out for a serial number. If none was found, I would stamp it with a number I made up and not think about it any more.
If you sell it someday thru a dealer, they will simply record the number they see on the gun without question and it then becomes listed in the system along with millions of others. It is not your responsibility to know he history of the gun before it came into your possession. If it came to you as a private sale there would not have been a 4473 filled out on it when you got it.

 

[Muley Gil]

The POSSESSION of a firearm with a removed serial number is illegal under Federal and most state's laws.

 

[kwill1911]

As long as you're willing to commit a felony then you're right. You can just ignore the law. It is probably low risk. But for me personally, I won't risk a felony conviction and lose the right to ever own a gun, or vote, or all the other rights you lose over a piece of junk.

 

[Elroy]

As long as you're willing to commit a felony then you're right. You can just ignore the law. It is probably low risk. But for me personally, I won't risk a felony conviction and lose the right to ever own a gun, or vote, or all the other rights you lose over a piece of junk.

As Elroy indicated earlier:

Neat old gun. Problem is, the poo stick couldn't be long enough............ANY poo stick would be too short.

I would elect to avoid any possibility of a felony. Stamping a fraudulent serial number.............Not for ME or Elroy !!!!

 

[alwslate]

Just a guess on my part but I would think if you find the serial number on other parts of the gun adding that number to the butt would not get you prosecuted for a felony on a 100+ year old revolver. I would think BATF agents have more pressing issues to worry about.

 

[kwill1911]

Probably right but I'm still not willing to guess on a felony, especially on a $100 junker.

 

[K Frame Keith]

Don’t mess with mindless bureaucrats. This isn’t your granddaddy’s ATF. Find the serial number or strip it and scrap the frame.

 

[jpage]

So, My circa 1943 Remington 513 was not issued a serial number by Remington. Is that a violation of the GCA ?

 

[Borderboss]

Guys, you probably haven't noticed that the OP is new to the forum and hasn't been back to this thread since he joined and posted. Probably all the talk about him possibly being a federal felon hasn't helped his thoughts on the forum. Instead of scaring the guy, we should assume that the gun somehow was transferred legally and just help the guy with knowledge about his gun. My $0.02.

 

[murphydog]

So, My circa 1943 Remington 513 was not issued a serial number by Remington. Is that a violation of the GCA ?

See post #13 above. Rimfire rifles at that time were not required to have SNs.

 

[Muley Gil]

So, My circa 1943 Remington 513 was not issued a serial number by Remington. Is that a violation of the GCA ?

No, it isn't.

Many .22 rifles and inexpensive shotguns were built and sold without ever receiving serial numbers.

 

[kwill1911]

I agree that we want to welcome new folks but...

...assume that the gun somehow was transferred legally....

I don't believe such a thing is possible. Facts don't care about feelings.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

... if someone ADDS a number?

I would stamp it with a number I made up and not think about it any more.

I will go with; HAWAII 50 or HOGLEG 6

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

Guys, you probably haven't noticed that the OP is new to the forum and hasn't been back to this thread since he joined and posted. Probably all the talk about him possibly being a federal felon hasn't helped his thoughts on the forum. Instead of scaring the guy, we should assume that the gun somehow was transferred legally and just help the guy with knowledge about his gun. My $0.02.

I agree.

Unless you are a Gun Enthusiast most people do not know that they can not just take a firearm in trade or help out the neighbor.

4473? Uncle Jed just did a handwritten Bill of Sale.

 

[Muley Gil]

I agree.

Unless you are a Gun Enthusiast most people do not know that they can not just take a firearm in trade or help out the neighbor.

4473? Uncle Jed just did a handwritten Bill of Sale.

You can do just that in many states.

 

[22hipower]

You can do just that in many states.

Or not even that, checking residency (driver's license for example) is all that is required between Texas residents.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[Gun Relics]

Guys, you probably haven't noticed that the OP is new to the forum and hasn't been back to this thread since he joined and posted. Probably all the talk about him possibly being a federal felon hasn't helped his thoughts on the forum. Instead of scaring the guy, we should assume that the gun somehow was transferred legally and just help the guy with knowledge about his gun. My $0.02.

Well if we're nice to him now he might think it's a sting operation.

 

[Hondo44]

So, My circa 1943 Remington 513 was not issued a serial number by Remington. Is that a violation of the GCA ?

Not when it wasn't originally serial numbered from the manufacturer like yours.

 

[smoothshooter]

The POSSESSION of a firearm with a removed serial number is illegal under Federal and most state's laws.

If you stamp a number on it then it becomes legal, doesn’t it?