m67skc
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Is there anyone who can give unbiased comparisons between these 2 357 mags?
Thanks.
Thanks.
M686 or Ruger GP100?
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Titegroups
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Most significant difference is the trigger is better in the smith. I have a 586 and the g, with many thousandsmof rounds through them both. By the smith if you want more refined, but the gp if you want to shoot mass quatities of ammo though it. You cant go wrong either way.
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No. But, I direct your attention to the Ruger-burger ads of the late 80s.
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I don't think Bill Ruger saw the humor in it. That Ruger-burger ad came, if I recall, after a Ruger ad comparing its forging process and its resultant "thick" frames to S&W's frame with its thin sections, etc.
S&W responded with the Ruger-burger ad.
Ruger responded, if memory serves, by telling every distributor that they had to choose between S&W and Ruger. Distribute one or the other. Ruger pulled its distributors who kept S&W.
After a few short years, Ruger reconsidered its policy and allowed its distributors to begin carrying S&W again.
It sort of got "ugly" for a while.
SJshooter
Member
The Smith is forged, the Ruger is cast. Out of the box, the Smith has a better trigger. S&W carries a lifetime warranty, Ruger customer service is good but they don't make the same offer. The Smith has a better resale value. I like the Smith cylinder release better than Rugers. I think the Smith is pretty like an old Cadillac while the Ruger is like a tank. Both are stout and will enjoyably shoot all day without fail. Never met anyone who bought either and didn't like it. But this is a Smith forum, so you ont be surprised when I say go for the Smith and don't look back..
jeffrey
Member
It's really a matter of taste. I have both Smiths and Rugers, but I will say that I prefer the looks of the old "six" series (Security Six, Speed Six and Service Six) to the looks of the current production GP100. But that's not to say that I would turn up my nose to a GP100 (I only have one GP100, as opposed to several older Rugers and three 686s and one 586).
If you like to tinker with the innards of a revolver, you might find that it is easier to work on a Smith as you can see how it all the moving parts at once when you remove the side plate. On the other hand, the absence of a side plate probably makes the Ruger a stronger design. But as many people mostly shoot .38 special out of their .357s, that probably doesn't matter all that much.
By the way, this is a query that comes up pretty often on the Ruger boards, not so much here. That may tell you something. I'd look there too.
If you like to tinker with the innards of a revolver, you might find that it is easier to work on a Smith as you can see how it all the moving parts at once when you remove the side plate. On the other hand, the absence of a side plate probably makes the Ruger a stronger design. But as many people mostly shoot .38 special out of their .357s, that probably doesn't matter all that much.
By the way, this is a query that comes up pretty often on the Ruger boards, not so much here. That may tell you something. I'd look there too.
My son has the rare 5" GP100 and I have a 6" 686-3. The GP100 is super solid and has a nice trigger easily as good as my 686. My 686 is "prettier" but doesn't feel as stout as the GP100.
Difficult choice and like has been said it depends on what is most important to you.
If the choice is between a new 686 with the lock and MIM and a new GP100, I would chose the GP100 hands down.
Difficult choice and like has been said it depends on what is most important to you.
If the choice is between a new 686 with the lock and MIM and a new GP100, I would chose the GP100 hands down.
lhump1961
US Veteran
That about sums it up...
I have all Smiths but my son-in-law has Rugers that I have shot. Nothing against Ruger's at all but the Smith's are a step up IMHO. The kicker is that when my son-in-law wanted a carry .357 revolver he did some homework and ended up talking me out of my 66-3 2 1/2"!
(not to worry, I have others and it stayed in the family!)
lhump1961
US Veteran
Good for you for finding a GP100 with a good trigger. I have never handled a Ruger revolver that could compare with any of my L frames for smooth action. As for "stout"...that, of course, is a debate that I won't rekindle here!
Personal opinion aside...both good guns.
I would have to research it but I'm sure Ruger uses MIM parts as well. I'm not aware of a production gun that doesn't these days.
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Dstyles75
Member
Interesting experiment. I bet you would get the same replies, but in favor of the GP100, if you posed the same question on a Ruger Forum.
Thats why you shouldn't be surprised when I say, "686 All The Way!"
Thats why you shouldn't be surprised when I say, "686 All The Way!"
gutterman
Member
I have and have had both. I still have my 686 and will never part with it-- cant say the same for the ruger.
Hillbilly77
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I have had both. I had a 6" GP100 and a 4" 686, and still own a 4" 586.
The Ruger is a fine firearm. The trigger is not as smooth as a Smith, but does have a nice, crisp break. The trigger can be vastly improved with a simple spring swap. You can get new springs for a couple dollars from Wolff Springs, and they swap out fairly easily. Also a little polishing with some 2000 grit sandpaper can do wonders.
Not to mention the several hundred dollar price difference. You can buy a Ruger for hundreds less.
They do not come out and say "Lifetime Warranty" like S&W does, but I have heard nothing but good reviews about Ruger's Customer Service when it comes to fixing problems.
The Ruger is a fine firearm. The trigger is not as smooth as a Smith, but does have a nice, crisp break. The trigger can be vastly improved with a simple spring swap. You can get new springs for a couple dollars from Wolff Springs, and they swap out fairly easily. Also a little polishing with some 2000 grit sandpaper can do wonders.
Not to mention the several hundred dollar price difference. You can buy a Ruger for hundreds less.
They do not come out and say "Lifetime Warranty" like S&W does, but I have heard nothing but good reviews about Ruger's Customer Service when it comes to fixing problems.
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357-RevolverGuy
Member
I own a 686 and GP100 and enjoy shooting them both about the same. I paid about $200 less for the GP100 and over the years it seems to be the more accurate shooter when handling .357 rounds. Both handle .38 the same... The accuracy on the GP100 I think has to do with the rear and front sights being better aligned. My 686 took many range trips before I was finally able to sight it in accurately.
What I like most about the 686: smoother trigger and hammer action, more refined steel, hammer feels great, a lot more selection on grips (just about every maker has some variety of grip style to choose from), option for 7 shot, more barrel lengths to choose from.
What I like most about the GP100: Nice balance, nicer grooves on top of the barrel, more accurate rear/front sight (front sight easy to change out), I'm one of the few that like the cylinder release button (it doesn't get in the way of speedloaders)
Nice thing is most holsters you buy for one will fit the other the same. Someone mentioned the 686 has better resell value but I am finding that both are selling very well at my local gun shops. Ruger has hit a homerun with the Wiley Clapp GP100 and S&W has their Talo edition 686 which are both hot sellers.
What I like most about the 686: smoother trigger and hammer action, more refined steel, hammer feels great, a lot more selection on grips (just about every maker has some variety of grip style to choose from), option for 7 shot, more barrel lengths to choose from.
What I like most about the GP100: Nice balance, nicer grooves on top of the barrel, more accurate rear/front sight (front sight easy to change out), I'm one of the few that like the cylinder release button (it doesn't get in the way of speedloaders)
Nice thing is most holsters you buy for one will fit the other the same. Someone mentioned the 686 has better resell value but I am finding that both are selling very well at my local gun shops. Ruger has hit a homerun with the Wiley Clapp GP100 and S&W has their Talo edition 686 which are both hot sellers.
BobR1
Member
I have a 686-1 and a 686-5 Both are Power Custom Revolvers.
My brother has a Willy Clapp 3" GP100 that Ron Power has also worked on.
After Ron Power working on all 3 revolvers the triggers are very similar on all 3.
My brother is Left handed, and likes the GP100 cylinder release better than a S&W.
If I were looking for a 3" Barrel version I would pick the Ruger. I like to use Safariland Speed Loaders, and they only come in a 6 shot version. The 686 with a 3" barrel in a 6 shooter is a little hard to locate.
Both are very compairable. Both can have a great trigger if worked on a little. If you are looking at a 4 or 6 inch barrel guns with adjustable sights, the Ruger quick change front sight is nice. If you like nice wood grips, the 686 has the edge.
Between the two choices I still own the 686's.
I also handgun hunt. I own a pair of 480 Ruger Super RedHawks. I much prefer the SRH to a S&W X Frame for my hunting revolver.
I also own an LCR 22. I looked the LCR 22 and the 43C over, and spent my money on the Ruger. Although I am not impressed with the 43C's aluminum cylinder, if the 43C had been priced the same as a 442, I would have been more inclined to have spent my money on the 43C.
Ruger on the other hand has the LCR 22, LCR 22M, and the LCR 38 all priced about the same, like they should be.
Bottom line, they both make quality products.
Bob
My brother has a Willy Clapp 3" GP100 that Ron Power has also worked on.
After Ron Power working on all 3 revolvers the triggers are very similar on all 3.
My brother is Left handed, and likes the GP100 cylinder release better than a S&W.
If I were looking for a 3" Barrel version I would pick the Ruger. I like to use Safariland Speed Loaders, and they only come in a 6 shot version. The 686 with a 3" barrel in a 6 shooter is a little hard to locate.
Both are very compairable. Both can have a great trigger if worked on a little. If you are looking at a 4 or 6 inch barrel guns with adjustable sights, the Ruger quick change front sight is nice. If you like nice wood grips, the 686 has the edge.
Between the two choices I still own the 686's.
I also handgun hunt. I own a pair of 480 Ruger Super RedHawks. I much prefer the SRH to a S&W X Frame for my hunting revolver.
I also own an LCR 22. I looked the LCR 22 and the 43C over, and spent my money on the Ruger. Although I am not impressed with the 43C's aluminum cylinder, if the 43C had been priced the same as a 442, I would have been more inclined to have spent my money on the 43C.
Ruger on the other hand has the LCR 22, LCR 22M, and the LCR 38 all priced about the same, like they should be.
Bottom line, they both make quality products.
Bob
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Exact same in my case. The 686 is just more appealing to the senses. Better looking, better trigger, better 'feel' and holds its value. My GP's were very good revolvers which were accurate enough for any normal sporting, hunting or defense purpose. One had thousands of hot magnum rounds through it and still locked-up tight as new. In the end the GP's were traded toward more S&W's.
I got a kick out of seeing the ad "What's thicker got to do" Sherry Collins, who is a friend, was ad mgr. with S&W at the time and countered with that ad . I thought it was a cool way of "countering" Ruger's ad campaign with humor. I have since lost track of Sherry, but always enjoyed her company.
Maximumbob54
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Bought it brand new a few years ago. Went in to buy a 686+. Found one. When I woke up on the floor from having passed out from sticker shock I went back to the GP100 and bought it. Added the old style grip and now it's near perfect.
Agreed on the Ruger triggers generally sucking compared to Smith. I was very surprised that my sons GP100 felt so good. My other son and I have SP101's and the triggers are nasty compared to the Smiths!
Bottom line... I like guns!! Revolvers especially! I'll take them all!!
(I even have a Taurus
.357 that I love!!)I'm completely unbiased; I own both revolvers and love them equally. I'm not a big fan of shooting .38Spls in .357 length chambers; these guns will take .357s all day. Buy both guns and keep them. Sad to sell off a great revolver.
357-RevolverGuy is correct about Ruger's 'Wiley Clapp' edition. It is a magnificent gun. Everything you need, nothing you don't. Hope this helps.
357-RevolverGuy is correct about Ruger's 'Wiley Clapp' edition. It is a magnificent gun. Everything you need, nothing you don't. Hope this helps.
Hillbilly77
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My SP101 trigger was also nasty out of the box. It seems like a lot of the internal parts are just thrown together with rough edges on them.
I replaced the springs with Wolff springs and smoothed out the rough egdes on a few contact surfaces in the action. It made a world of difference. It still isn't a Smith, but it's a very nice trigger now.
finesse_r
Member
I like and own both......
Last month I picked up a very nice Ruger GP-100 three inch in stainless steel for under $500.00. To get a similar S&W 686 will cost me $300 or probably more than that to pick up. So while I do prefer the S&W 686 (especially in a dash 3 or dash 4, but not in a post internal lock model), for the difference in price I am quite pleased with the GP-100. It is certainly as reliable and it is certainly as strong and durable. The only real advantage to the S&W is a better factory trigger pull, and the adjustable sights, which are not so important in a carry pistol to me. The GP can of course be purchased with or without adjustable sights, mine just does not have them.
I also prefer the Ruger Six series at current prices to the S&W 686. While I have a very nice four inch 686 that I have no plans in selling, at current values I am looking at the Security Six as a viable alternative to an additional 686 in any size. I recently picked up a 4 inch SS Security Six in excellent condition for $ 450 out the door. It had had a quality trigger job done on it and it is every bit as good as a stock 686 trigger. Again the gun is probably as strong as the 686, certainly as reliable and durable as the 686, and again at least $300 less expensive.
Don't misunderstand me. I think the 686 is one of the best revolvers S&W every made. However, like the 696 and the 625 (both of which I really like), the 686 is over priced due I suspect to the current political environment, and collectors.
If there were not such a large price difference I would be prefer the 686 to the GP-100, but not always to the Ruger Six series. I would trade my three inch GP-100 for a three inch 686 in similar condition in a heart beat. LOL But I don't think I will be offered any such trade. I would not trade my SS 2 ¾" Speed Six 9mm for any size Model 686.
I think the Ruger Six series revolvers (Speed, Security, & Service) are some of the most under valued revolvers ever made. Ruger's discontinuing of the Six series was as big a mistake as S&W discontinuing their third generation pistols or their move to put internal locks on their revolvers. I certainly prefer the Ruger Speed Six to the Ruger GP series and I prefer the Speed Six to the S&W Models 65 & 66, although I do have both the Speed Six 2 ¾" and the Model 65 in 3". However, I will sell the Model 65 long before I sell my Speed Six. The market is waking up to the value of the 2 ¾" Speed Six, especially in 9mm and prices are going up fairly quickly.
Right now if Ruger would step out and improve their triggers, add some new single/double action revolvers, such as .44 special and 45 ACP, and resume their 9mm, then Ruger could quickly take over the leadership in the revolver market. However, they have shown no such inclinations and appear content with their current level of the firearm market.
Since most quality gun smiths, and even some talented owners have been able to adjust the Ruger triggers to make them slick and very nice, I have to believe it is the fear of litigation that prevents Ruger from making that adjustment to their single/double action revolvers. Certainly their single action only line has some very nice triggers on them.
My carry guns vary from 3913, 4014, Model 64 3", or most recently a Model 696 to the Speed Six in 9mm or the GP-100 3' SS, and rarely a 2 ¾" Security Six in .357 mag. The 696 is fast becoming my favorite revolver to carry, and I can't believe how long it took me to discover this model. They are all good, reliable carry guns and my mood and clothes dictate which I carry.
Other than their .22LR Mark series, I do not care for Ruger pistols at all. I also don't care for the new Smith pistols at all, but do really like the discontinued S&W third generation pistols. Unfortunately the prices are going up on these as well.
Last month I picked up a very nice Ruger GP-100 three inch in stainless steel for under $500.00. To get a similar S&W 686 will cost me $300 or probably more than that to pick up. So while I do prefer the S&W 686 (especially in a dash 3 or dash 4, but not in a post internal lock model), for the difference in price I am quite pleased with the GP-100. It is certainly as reliable and it is certainly as strong and durable. The only real advantage to the S&W is a better factory trigger pull, and the adjustable sights, which are not so important in a carry pistol to me. The GP can of course be purchased with or without adjustable sights, mine just does not have them.
I also prefer the Ruger Six series at current prices to the S&W 686. While I have a very nice four inch 686 that I have no plans in selling, at current values I am looking at the Security Six as a viable alternative to an additional 686 in any size. I recently picked up a 4 inch SS Security Six in excellent condition for $ 450 out the door. It had had a quality trigger job done on it and it is every bit as good as a stock 686 trigger. Again the gun is probably as strong as the 686, certainly as reliable and durable as the 686, and again at least $300 less expensive.
Don't misunderstand me. I think the 686 is one of the best revolvers S&W every made. However, like the 696 and the 625 (both of which I really like), the 686 is over priced due I suspect to the current political environment, and collectors.
If there were not such a large price difference I would be prefer the 686 to the GP-100, but not always to the Ruger Six series. I would trade my three inch GP-100 for a three inch 686 in similar condition in a heart beat. LOL But I don't think I will be offered any such trade. I would not trade my SS 2 ¾" Speed Six 9mm for any size Model 686.
I think the Ruger Six series revolvers (Speed, Security, & Service) are some of the most under valued revolvers ever made. Ruger's discontinuing of the Six series was as big a mistake as S&W discontinuing their third generation pistols or their move to put internal locks on their revolvers. I certainly prefer the Ruger Speed Six to the Ruger GP series and I prefer the Speed Six to the S&W Models 65 & 66, although I do have both the Speed Six 2 ¾" and the Model 65 in 3". However, I will sell the Model 65 long before I sell my Speed Six. The market is waking up to the value of the 2 ¾" Speed Six, especially in 9mm and prices are going up fairly quickly.
Right now if Ruger would step out and improve their triggers, add some new single/double action revolvers, such as .44 special and 45 ACP, and resume their 9mm, then Ruger could quickly take over the leadership in the revolver market. However, they have shown no such inclinations and appear content with their current level of the firearm market.
Since most quality gun smiths, and even some talented owners have been able to adjust the Ruger triggers to make them slick and very nice, I have to believe it is the fear of litigation that prevents Ruger from making that adjustment to their single/double action revolvers. Certainly their single action only line has some very nice triggers on them.
My carry guns vary from 3913, 4014, Model 64 3", or most recently a Model 696 to the Speed Six in 9mm or the GP-100 3' SS, and rarely a 2 ¾" Security Six in .357 mag. The 696 is fast becoming my favorite revolver to carry, and I can't believe how long it took me to discover this model. They are all good, reliable carry guns and my mood and clothes dictate which I carry.
Other than their .22LR Mark series, I do not care for Ruger pistols at all. I also don't care for the new Smith pistols at all, but do really like the discontinued S&W third generation pistols. Unfortunately the prices are going up on these as well.
I've got both, a five inch GP and a 686-5 four inch seven shooter. Just picked up the Smith at the first of the year, so not too much trigger time with it.
Both are fine, the Ruger is a tank, and with the old wood insert grip setup, to me, recoils a lot less than the 686 with the same loads. For a brief time, I thought I wanted a 686+ Mountain Gun to go with my 657 MG. After shooting full throttle loads through the four incher I ended up with, no thanks. I don't want that gun to be any lighter than it is.
I doubt the Ruger will ever have the trigger the Smith does, but I shoot more accurately with a GP than most revolvers. Though technically 'wrong' according to a lot of folks, I can stage the double action on a Ruger and shoot very well with it. Sorry, but if the bullet goes where it is supposed to, it isn't wrong.
My 686 was bought used, and I initially gushed over the smooth trigger. Then I went to the range and found that was due to a strain screw that had been backed off, and reliable ignition was not there. Once I tightened the screw up, it's surefire, but the trigger is stout enough that it is nothing to brag about. Overall no better or worse than the GP, just a different feel.
I'm glad I have both.
Both are fine, the Ruger is a tank, and with the old wood insert grip setup, to me, recoils a lot less than the 686 with the same loads. For a brief time, I thought I wanted a 686+ Mountain Gun to go with my 657 MG. After shooting full throttle loads through the four incher I ended up with, no thanks. I don't want that gun to be any lighter than it is.
I doubt the Ruger will ever have the trigger the Smith does, but I shoot more accurately with a GP than most revolvers. Though technically 'wrong' according to a lot of folks, I can stage the double action on a Ruger and shoot very well with it. Sorry, but if the bullet goes where it is supposed to, it isn't wrong.
My 686 was bought used, and I initially gushed over the smooth trigger. Then I went to the range and found that was due to a strain screw that had been backed off, and reliable ignition was not there. Once I tightened the screw up, it's surefire, but the trigger is stout enough that it is nothing to brag about. Overall no better or worse than the GP, just a different feel.
I'm glad I have both.
Maximumbob54
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Guys, let's be honest here. I know this is a S&W forum and we all love and cherish our Smith's but today's revolvers are getting to be a **** shoot on if the trigger is good out of the box or not. My 629-6 6" came to me with a good but heavy trigger. My buddy buys one of the 629-6 3" Talo guns and the trigger on it was gritty and crazy heavy. I've bought a NIB unfired Ruger Security Six, GP100, and SP101. None of them came with awful triggers but they each smoothed out with some oil and some shooting. If you get a new S&W or Ruger with an undesirable trigger then any competent gun smith can correct a poor trigger. My only issue is the cost. Yes, the investment casting and minimal machining will keep the Ruger at less cost than the S&W. BUT... I just choke at the increased cost in stepping from a GP100 to a 686.
SurfGuitar
Member
I've owned both Ruger and S&W revolvers, and here's my take on all this....
My first Ruger GP-100 (6") had a gritty and heavy trigger, after swapping out the stock springs with a set of Wolf springs, and a lot of shooting, it did lighten up and smooth out. The 4" GP-100 I own now came out of the box with a very smooth trigger.
I've also owned a 6" 686, the trigger was very smooth, no creep or grit at all, the trigger pull on my second GP, and the 686 where about the same....
Both guns are well made, just made differently, in a perfect world where money is no object, I'd say get both, but if you can only choose one, then decide what it is you what the gun to do for you.
If you intend to shoot mostly target shoot with factory .38's, with occasionally running some Magnums for fun, then the 686 is a very good choice. If you're a reloader who likes to experiment with maximum loads, or you intend to shoot a steady diet of hot magnum loads....hands down get the Ruger GP-100, it can handle the punishment of hot loads better than the S&W.
Although this conversation doesn't involve the model 29, I feel it's worth mentioning that I had a 4" model 29 (.44 Magnum) that would shoot light .44 Spl's all day, but as soon as I ran .44 Magnums through it, the trigger mechanism would come apart. Now it could of just been that I had a lemon, and it's not a common problem, but I felt that gun just wasn't built for a steady diet of hot loads, and I traded it in for something else....
686 or GP-100....either way you'll end up with a good solid .357 Magnum that you'll get years of enjoyment from....
My first Ruger GP-100 (6") had a gritty and heavy trigger, after swapping out the stock springs with a set of Wolf springs, and a lot of shooting, it did lighten up and smooth out. The 4" GP-100 I own now came out of the box with a very smooth trigger.
I've also owned a 6" 686, the trigger was very smooth, no creep or grit at all, the trigger pull on my second GP, and the 686 where about the same....
Both guns are well made, just made differently, in a perfect world where money is no object, I'd say get both, but if you can only choose one, then decide what it is you what the gun to do for you.
If you intend to shoot mostly target shoot with factory .38's, with occasionally running some Magnums for fun, then the 686 is a very good choice. If you're a reloader who likes to experiment with maximum loads, or you intend to shoot a steady diet of hot magnum loads....hands down get the Ruger GP-100, it can handle the punishment of hot loads better than the S&W.
Although this conversation doesn't involve the model 29, I feel it's worth mentioning that I had a 4" model 29 (.44 Magnum) that would shoot light .44 Spl's all day, but as soon as I ran .44 Magnums through it, the trigger mechanism would come apart. Now it could of just been that I had a lemon, and it's not a common problem, but I felt that gun just wasn't built for a steady diet of hot loads, and I traded it in for something else....
686 or GP-100....either way you'll end up with a good solid .357 Magnum that you'll get years of enjoyment from....
