Mags for M -1 carbine

[Dave Haynes]

Folks might think about not using the 30 round magazines at all. They are the reason that the M2 Korean war carriers would be out of ammo within the first 10 minutes of an attack. Basic load was about 120 rounds and that is four 30s. On full auto on the excitement plan they were gone very quickly and were a slow painful process to reload. The 15s were much easier to reload and the stay open followers interchanged. The worst part of a 30 rd mag is that it turns a handy beautifully balanced little rifle into a club. Just like the stock pouch ruins the balance and handling of a sweet 5.8 lb weapon. Looks totally cool spoils the best thing the carbine has to offer. If we were in a war, sure, but we are shooting beer cans and small game. Very few can afford an M2 so why get involved in that? Ammo is no longer a nickel a shot.

 

[AJ]

As you can see at one time I had quite a few M1 & M1A1 carbines. Sold most except one. Had boxes of carbine magazines, sold a lot of those too. Now for the one carbine that I still have, I have 30 magazines. All are U.S. issue. Back when I was buying magazines, if I was offered an aftermarket mag I put it down and moved on.

 

[Rudi2]

I've had more success with the 15 rounders functioning properly vs. the 30 rounders. JMHO & YMMV

Agreed, haven't shot the carbine in a while, but I never had a problem with 15 rounders, I have both GI and Korean mags. The 30 rounders were another story, I sold or gave them all away.

 

[Matt_X]

Some posts here on what to look for when diagnosing feed failures related to the magazines. Of course it goes without saying that the condition of the nibs is important, and that as already mentioned, 30 round magazines should have the magazine catch that supports the additional nib.

MAGS for a early WINCHESTER arsenal rebuild - The Carbine Collector's Club

i've read, and seen that mags have a lot to do with feeding issues. after further inspection of...

www.uscarbinecal30.com

Bullet penetration myth busted - The Carbine Collector's Club - Page 1

Yesterday I had a need to test fire just a few rounds from my carbine after some repair. So, not wanting...

www.uscarbinecal30.com

Side note: I've watched the Forgotten Weapons and In Range youtube videos on the M1 carbine and don't recall Ian having feed issues. He had an issue with the rear sight coming loose on the replica carbine made by AO. Karl had a misfeed, but he says he often has misfeeds which leads one to suspect his technique may be in play.
I agree with the earlier post about proper maint and lube. IMO the full 1944 edition of the field manual covers this better than the first edition. (Nicolaus Associates has an enlarged reprint for $12.50)

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

The 30 round mags generally don't work very well. Have an M1A1 and I play heck finding 30 rounders that work. For general use, the KCI 15 rounds mags work well. Collectors want the mag that matches the carbine manufacturer.

The magazine catch is different for the 30 rounders.....2 catches instead of one......Search M1 carbine.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

The Carbine is ammo sensitive more than mag sensitive. An untrimmed case that exceeds specs will cause guns to blow up. It was enough to have the ammo manufacturers check 100% of case length as the rounds were made, If you treat the mags nicely no slamming, pounding or abuse, they work fine and last. 30 rd mags work in all carbines but to work well they need the late style mag catch which has an adjunct arm at the side that stops side to side slop. If ammo is slightly too long it drags the rounds at the front in the mags and causes poor function. Generally a new GI operating spring cures all function problems. Also lubing and grease helps a lot. Inside the op rod slot and rails and on the bolt lugs like a Garand. Wolf springs are just a bag of industrial springs that happen to fit. In my opinion not needed or used. I bought the whole bag and used exactly one. The original springs still operate fine.
They made 6M carbines and probably 20 times that many mags. People condemn the carbine because almost everyone doesn't lube them like a Garand. That's because the manual says only use light oil (Korea....Cold...) and they are shot bone dry with questionable reloads.
All US Carbine ammo is non corrosive, most French and Chinese IS corrosive.

Your second sentence is not true.........Show evidence or proof.........I own/shoot/reload for multiple carbines.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

How odd. I've had three of them, never had a problem with any of them.

I have 3...........No problem with any of them..........Lots of "smoke & mirrors" and "old wive's tales" out there..........Search Audey Murphy............Carried a carbine through out WW11.............called it "Old Lucky"

Old saying............"Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see".
.

 

[Dave Haynes]

Your second sentence is not true.........Show evidence or proof.........I own/shoot/reload for multiple carbines.

It absolutely is true! Do you have "War Baby"? or W.B II ? I'm looking it up can't remember where it is exactly...I'll be back

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

It absolutely is true! Do you have "War Baby"? or W.B II ? I'm looking it up can't remember where it is exactly...I'll be back

I have read both...........Show PROOF of blow ups.............I've never trimmed a carbine round and never had a problem.

 

[Dave Haynes]

War Baby: Page 212 "Dealing with unexplained blow ups"
You owe me about six hours.
I've never trimmed a carbine case either. Probably because the makers watch their case lengths.

 

[jacketed only]

One thing I recently found that has been a help for carbine mags ,plastic followers! made a big difference in my mags performance e bay has them.

 

[Dave Haynes]

Hey Mike.....expert...your answer is here! You don't read War Baby you absorb it.

 

[Dave Haynes]

Thanks for the offer.
I was in search of an R marked front sight, but found one on ebay. My buddy has an excellent matching numbers Rockola. It was passed down to him recently. I explained to him what a rare M1 carbine he actually had. I pionted out the barrel band bayonet lug and front sight. Are the only parts not properly marked.

I would be very careful what I bought and from whom I bought it. Selling fake carbine parts has been a problem for 25-30 years. I'm not going to mention the name of the company. If you needed a part, stick around because he have what you needed in no time. The carbine collectors forum was almost always about what was real and what was fake. One guy made and sold complete sets of stock stamps, all fake. A $100 piece of wood became a $300 genuine whatever. A $10 bayonet band cut down became a genuine $400 type 2. Fake type 1 bands and flip sights. There were hundreds of thousands of parts exchanged between companies, some marked some not. Many Winchester stocks are unmarked in the sling well. Lots of W sewing machine company parts are sold as Winchesters. It is way past the time that you can "Correct" a carbine and be sure it has what you think are real parts. Best bet for an Original is a mid-year or fall 1944 Winchester or Inland. Many went straight from factory to storage retaining type 2 bands and factory installed adjustable sights. Every part as built. Many were sold for $20 by the NRA and they are out there.

 

[Kal.38]

I would be very careful what I bought and from whom I bought it. Selling fake carbine parts has been a problem for 25-30 years. I'm not going to mention the name of the company. If you needed a part, stick around because he have what you needed in no time. The carbine collectors forum was almost always about what was real and what was fake. One guy made and sold complete sets of stock stamps, all fake. A $100 piece of wood became a $300 genuine whatever. A $10 bayonet band cut down became a genuine $400 type 2. Fake type 1 bands and flip sights. There were hundreds of thousands of parts exchanged between companies, some marked some not. Many Winchester stocks are unmarked in the sling well. Lots of W sewing machine company parts are sold as Winchesters. It is way past the time that you can "Correct" a carbine and be sure it has what you think are real parts. Best bet for an Original is a mid-year or fall 1944 Winchester or Inland. Many went straight from factory to storage retaining type 2 bands and factory installed adjustable sights. Every part as built. Many were sold for $20 by the NRA and they are out there.

Thank you for all the info.
The best M-1carbine I've ever seen was an Inland. It was a lend/lease Bavarian game warden marked. Re-imported in the 60s it had a faint Interarms roll mark under the front sight.

 

[DWalt]

I stopped worrying about carbine originality, so long as they shoot. Here in San Antonio was the Army's San Antonio Arsenal where most WWII carbines were "modernized" during the postwar period. It is just south of downtown San Antonio, and the original Arsenal buildings are still there. Now it is the headquarters ot the H-E-B supermarket chain. Back in Ohio, when I was in high school, the principal had worked at the Inland Division Carbine plant in Dayton all during the war. 43% of WWII M1 carbines were made there.

 

[AJ]

With proper maintenance (cleaning and proper lube) and G.I. magazines the M1 Carbine works just fine. It helped win a war as it was. Most failures with the weapon are operator induced. So keep it clean and lubedm both the carbine and the magazines. By the way I have trimmed cases that did not fit in the case length gage.

 

[Puller]

Thanks for the offer.
I was in search of an R marked front sight, but found one on ebay. My buddy has an excellent matching numbers Rockola. It was passed down to him recently. I explained to him what a rare M1 carbine he actually had. I pionted out the barrel band bayonet lug and front sight. Are the only parts not properly marked.

I've seen many good USGI carbines have it's value diminished by those inexperienced with M1 carbines who started swapping out parts on a perfectly good gun.

 

[Dave Haynes]

All good info and thoughts. One of the things that used to drive me crazy was this quest to put the carbine back to original configuration just because parts were marked. When A: they had no idea what it was like when it left the factory B: They had no idea if the parts that they were replacing were real or fake. Real serious students of the carbine had the knowledge to make sense of this, part swappers never did. I had a carbine that I'd owned for decades, an early 44 manufacture. Every part was correct down to the oiler except one single part, a very common part. A swapper would have removed the offending part immediately and in his mind would have hit paydirt, An ersatz original carbine. Turns out that the manufacturer (W) had received (borrowed)a 1500 piece shipment of the offending parts from the other maker (U) a month of so before my carbine was made. So that completely original gun stayed as it should have. Couple that with decades of bad information in previous carbine books and it becomes an almost impossible and pointless quest. Larry Ruth author of "War Baby" warns against trying to put the jigsaw puzzle back together as a waste of time. Really, who cares? The carbines that were rebuilt or modified use the best upgrade parts and the bayonet lug guns shoot better than the earlier guns anyway. If a person chooses to go to the trouble of removing a front sight (probably original) to replace it with a $10 part stamped with a letter and bought for $50 that's his business. It could be genuine but still?

 

[Hardhat DV2]

Yes there are. It's called "tuning" your mags and it works. Once tuned, modern M1 mags work excellently.

30 carbine mags 30 round. I load and cast my powder coat gas check ammo for 30 carbine. I have the M2 conversion Postal Meter.
Looking for more mags I bought KCI gen 2 30 round. These have the bolt hold open after last shot.
I bought a 30 and a 15 from Brownells to try them out. I had no problems with them in full auto mode. Ordered 6 or 8 more. You might try one.

 

[Tracksidewrong]

I have nine original G.I. 15 round mags that were still in the wrap when I bought them around 2007 when I received my Inland from the CMP. They have never given me any issues.

I also have two AYP marked 30 round mags that I found in the same box as the 15 rounders when I bought them at my favorite gun store and they have given me no issues either. I believe these may be Dutch or Belgium manufactured mags.

I also decided to try one of the KCI 30 rounds mags. Have not shot this one a lot, but it works good other than the fact that I can only get 29 rounds in it. It will not take that last round no matter what.

 

[Glenn R. McMannly]

I have never found any magazines, original G.I. surplus or cheap knock offs that were reliable. As a matter of fact during WWII the Soldiers used to throw the magazines away after they were empty and for two reasons, 1. They were so thin the fed lips were easily deformed and the mags they got were already loaded with ammo.

I like others, even famous others like Ian McCollum, could never get any M1 Carbine to work reliably. Nothing helped, including replacing recoil springs, using original G.I.Ammo, Commercial ammo, handloads etc. The M1 Carbine design was never really perfected. As a matter of fact I once watched a very respectful video by an M1 Carbine expert that gave all the advice he had on trying to make an M1 Carbine work, none of which was worth a tinker's dam.

Well said. The carbine was rushed into production and I've never seen one that was half as reliable as a Garand.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

War Baby: Page 212 "Dealing with unexplained blow ups"
You owe me about six hours.
I've never trimmed a carbine case either. Probably because the makers watch their case lengths.

pg 212 states that in 1943 they discovered the hammer and bolt cam were not hardened enough causing it to wear and sometimes fire out of battery and said longer ammunition--- MAY HAVE --contributed to this............The problem was fixed in 1943 and hasn't happened since..........

 

[Tracksidewrong]

My Inland Carbine has been a very reliable and decently accurate rifle, and I have shot it quite a bit over the years. I have always enjoyed shooting it and my wife likes it too.

 

[Dave Haynes]

pg 212 states that in 1943 they discovered the hammer and bolt cam were not hardened enough causing it to wear and sometimes fire out of battery and said longer ammunition--- MAY HAVE --contributed to this............The problem was fixed in 1943 and hasn't happened since..........

You asked for proof of blowups Right? The problem was discovered and reported by the test firers at the factories....hard to wear out a gun in the first 20 rounds..... How big of a deal was it if all the ammo factories had to test case length on 100% of production? It was a lot more than a worn parts issue. "hasn't happen since" that's because they were checking 100% of the ammo.

 

[AJ]

The M1 Carbine could not have been that terrible as it remained in service until the 1970's. Just like the M3 Grease Gun (in 1972 in Thailand I watched our armorer demill about 10 M3's with a sledge hammer, offered him a lot of money for one before he broke them up. He said he had to show the pieces to the armorery officer for the records.).

 

[sousana]

Way back, IMI/IWI put out factory new mags, couple years back E-Lander had em on clearance for 9.95 each. I'm pretty sure I bought them out, ain't had a lick a trouble with em.

 

[bph9]

Some posts here on what to look for when diagnosing feed failures related to the magazines. Of course it goes without saying that the condition of the nibs is important, and that as already mentioned, 30 round magazines should have the magazine catch that supports the additional nib.

MAGS for a early WINCHESTER arsenal rebuild - The Carbine Collector's Club

i've read, and seen that mags have a lot to do with feeding issues. after further inspection of...

www.uscarbinecal30.com

Bullet penetration myth busted - The Carbine Collector's Club - Page 1

Yesterday I had a need to test fire just a few rounds from my carbine after some repair. So, not wanting...

www.uscarbinecal30.com

Side note: I've watched the Forgotten Weapons and In Range youtube videos on the M1 carbine and don't recall Ian having feed issues. He had an issue with the rear sight coming loose on the replica carbine made by AO. Karl had a misfeed, but he says he often has misfeeds which leads one to suspect his technique may be in play.
I agree with the earlier post about proper maint and lube. IMO the full 1944 edition of the field manual covers this better than the first edition. (Nicolaus Associates has an enlarged reprint for $12.50)

Ian had an interview with an old time so called expert of the M1 carbine. Ian specifically stated he could never get any M1 carbine to work reliably. The so called expert simply replied with a contrived polite excuse and that was and I quote "The standards of reliability were less during those days". He was admitting Ian was 100% correct.

I myself was warned by my buddies way back in the 70's not to expect an M1 Carbine to work reliably and when I bought several they were 100% correct. Neither their carbines nor mine was worthy of taking into a battle unless you planned on committing suicide and going out in a blaze of glory.

The carbine's low recoil and dashing looks even made a big hit with the WWII Japanese as they often used the battle field pick up M1 carbines. I suppose their smaller statue made the lower recoiling M1 Carbine appealing and since they had a bad habit of using banzai suicide charges poor reliability was not a problem.

G.I.'s liked the Carbine for guard duty in the South Pacific at night because of its firepower over the 1911 or M1 rifle. They simply emptied one into the black of the night when they heard the slightest noise at night.

In defense of the M1 Carbine I once did a penetration experiment because the Carbine was often bad mouthed by the usual Dufus gun writers as having poor penetration. As usual they were wrong. When I shot into car windshields the carbine fmj bullets penetrated the auto windshield while the more modern 5.56mm using fmj commercial bullets did not penetrate very well often fragmenting. Green tip ammo did penetrate because (despite denials by gun owning Congressmen) it is armor piercing ammo. That came about when the ATF tried to ban the sale of surplus green tipped ammo.

Like General Patton I was always appalled by the poor accuracy of an M1 Carbine. Of course those that defend this weapon claim it was only meant to replace the 1911 pistol and was to be used only for close range blasting. This it will do if shot at normal pistol ranges of under 50 yards.

 

[bph9]

I forgot to mention that M1 Carbines are noted for often blowing up because the carbine operates at much higher pressure than most people are aware of and the headspacing is very critical. As a matter of fact when Iver Johnson changed hands the Idiots running the place got rid of the quality control people and they shipped out a lot of carbines with bad headspace which resulted in their guns blowing sky high and then they had a massive recall. I sent mine back in before it blew up and they reworked it before sending it back to me.

After learning how sensitive the M1 Carbine is to headspace that is only a little off spec. I made sure that when I hand loaded for it my ammo was always up to factory specs.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

You asked for proof of blowups Right? The problem was discovered and reported by the test firers at the factories....hard to wear out a gun in the first 20 rounds..... How big of a deal was it if all the ammo factories had to test case length on 100% of production? It was a lot more than a worn parts issue. "hasn't happen since" that's because they were checking 100% of the ammo.

You're blowing air into a balloon that busted in 1943........Gamer over.......Goodbye.

 

[bph9]

Seems you and Ian could probably use some help from someone who actually has some experience with M1 carbines. Your experience is not typical.

I have and my friends have been shooting M1 Carbines since the 1970's I think that is more than enough experience with them to know about all of their problems and as I stated its more than just reliability issues. As I said before the gas piston ring is a very poor design that often leads to the piston housing cracking.