Just shot my brand new M2.0 5" FDE model the other day and had a total of 9 failures to eject/extract the casing from the chamber. The fired casing would remain in the barrel while the slide tried to chamber a fresh round, resulting in a double feed. This type of malfunction requires the magazine to be removed in order to clear it. I was using good Winchester brass. I also put 50+ rounds of the same ammo from the same box through my glock 26 and had no ejection issues at all. For full disclosure, I removed the thumb safety before my first trip to the range. When I removed the safety I only worked on the frame portion and took the slide completely off, so there was no damage to the extractor or anything. Also, one of the two magazines that came with the gun doesn't drop free when the mag release is pressed, whether it's fully loaded or empty.
Malfunctioning Brand new M&P M2.0 5" model - 9 FTEs
- Thread starter Jorgsmash
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Failure to extract is about the worst kind of jam you can have. It really takes you out of the action! Some causes that usually require factory repair: poor barrel-to-slide fit; poor barrel timing due to bad barrel or locking block specs; of course, restricted/defective bad extractor or extractor spring; rough or out-of-spec chamber; etc.
I didn't see any obvious rim damage to the fired case from the extractor claw so I guess sticking in a rough chamber could be eliminated...
All these kinds of problems usually require a factory warranty repair. Put your original parts back in and send it in. Good Luck.
I didn't see any obvious rim damage to the fired case from the extractor claw so I guess sticking in a rough chamber could be eliminated...
All these kinds of problems usually require a factory warranty repair. Put your original parts back in and send it in. Good Luck.
If you're shooting 115gr I would move up to 124 for a while. Often times new pistols are a bit balky with lighter loads. Once it's broken in it will probably work fine with 115 ft. Just a thought.
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I will definitely be sending it in. I'm a little irritated though as this is the 2nd M&P pistol I've owned and I had problems with the last one as well. This one is a bit more irritating because it was the first time I ever fired it. What do you think about the magazine not dropping free?
I do believe that perhaps a change in brand/type/grain of ammo could fix the issue or cause it not to happen again, but it shouldn't happen in the first place. 9 failures to extract within the first 100 rounds is just unacceptable. It almost makes me feel as if I can never trust the pistol again to be 100% reliable.
I'd sure try gonerydin's suggestion of more break-in shooting before giving up on the gun's function. While some people have zero defects from the first shot, these ARE mass produced products with tolerances which CAN stack the wrong way on the line.
Magazines that won't drop free do sound like a return-to-factory problem. But if a few hundred more rounds down the pipe will smooth out the working surfaces to where the gun is 100% on reliability, then that's one less thing for the factory to have to diagnose and fix, and you might not have to start over on the break-in when the gun comes back with properly functioning mags. (Of course, the factory may decide the mag well is out of spec and can only be fixed with a new gun, but that's a risk you run with any repair these days - I have a Shield 22 Compact back at the mothership whose mags won't stay IN unless you push 'em in a certain way, and the fact that they DO work normally if I reverse the mag catch has me thinking the frame is somehow just ever so slightly out of whack, and I fear the way they'll fix it is with a new gun. Oh well . . . )
Magazines that won't drop free do sound like a return-to-factory problem. But if a few hundred more rounds down the pipe will smooth out the working surfaces to where the gun is 100% on reliability, then that's one less thing for the factory to have to diagnose and fix, and you might not have to start over on the break-in when the gun comes back with properly functioning mags. (Of course, the factory may decide the mag well is out of spec and can only be fixed with a new gun, but that's a risk you run with any repair these days - I have a Shield 22 Compact back at the mothership whose mags won't stay IN unless you push 'em in a certain way, and the fact that they DO work normally if I reverse the mag catch has me thinking the frame is somehow just ever so slightly out of whack, and I fear the way they'll fix it is with a new gun. Oh well . . . )
I do believe that perhaps a change in brand/type/grain of ammo could fix the issue or cause it not to happen again, but it shouldn't happen in the first place. 9 failures to extract within the first 100 rounds is just unacceptable. It almost makes me feel as if I can never trust the pistol again to be 100% reliable.
Walkingwolf
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For that type of failure, I would send it back.
Sorry for the double reply first off. This website doesn't seem to work well on mobile browser. To your point, I would really hope not to ever have a malfunction like this, especially 9 of them. I've never had a single malfunction with my glock. I know they can't be compared. But is it really fair to say "oh well shoot it some more and put those malfunctions behind you in the past. The gun might work then."
And to your second point, is it a bad thing if they replace the whole gun? The frame could be out of spec. Will that incur any charges if they deem the gun needs to be replaced?
If it comes back from the factory I suppose I can trust it again. I just have not had good luck with Smith in my lifetime. Only owned two though.... 0_o
Cheapskait
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Is the extractor supposed to stick out like that?
I don't have a 2.0, but the extractor on my 40c is slightly recessed and doesn't stand proud of the slide. Maybe you've got a burr or some manufacturing crude under there or maybe a broken/defective/missing extractor spring.
I don't have a 2.0, but the extractor on my 40c is slightly recessed and doesn't stand proud of the slide. Maybe you've got a burr or some manufacturing crude under there or maybe a broken/defective/missing extractor spring.
For years, the usual advice for checking out an autoloader before carrying it for personal defense has been to shoot it until it had 100/200/500/1000/pick-your-number of consecutive shots without a failure. And that included trying different ammo. Precisely BECAUSE new guns are known for not always being totally reliable right out of the box, and for sometimes not liking a particular brand or bullet weight. I've NEVER heard anybody say that if a gun has ANY failures with the first brand and type of ammo you try, before it has been through a reasonable break-in regime, then you should not trust it, no matter how many flawless strings it may have later with that or other ammo.
Sure, lots of people report flawless reliability out of the box, with the first ammo they try, even without a hint of cleaning the brand new gun. And we may all be spoiled by those reports, or even our own excellent experiences. But is it realistic to set that as a MINIMUM, when the historic experience recommends hundreds of rounds, and usually different ammo, before making a judgment?
Admittedly, if you're going to send the gun in for the magazine fix you may not want to "waste" any more ammo on function testing. I was just pointing out that IF the magazine problem can be fixed without a new frame/gun, then you might avoid having to go through the break-in process again if you got THIS barrel/slide/frame setup to work first, so the factory didn't have to fiddle with it.
As for replacing the whole gun if the frame turns out to be slightly out of spec - well, that's what you'd want 'em to do. It's just a nuisance have to go through the FFL/background check process again, when a "normal" repair comes directly back to your door. I've been through the replacement process, though, and there is NO extra cost - all the shipping is covered both ways and S&W reimburses the FFL/transfer fee too - it's just the nuisance of having to go to the FFL and then submit the receipt to S&W.
Sure, lots of people report flawless reliability out of the box, with the first ammo they try, even without a hint of cleaning the brand new gun. And we may all be spoiled by those reports, or even our own excellent experiences. But is it realistic to set that as a MINIMUM, when the historic experience recommends hundreds of rounds, and usually different ammo, before making a judgment?
Admittedly, if you're going to send the gun in for the magazine fix you may not want to "waste" any more ammo on function testing. I was just pointing out that IF the magazine problem can be fixed without a new frame/gun, then you might avoid having to go through the break-in process again if you got THIS barrel/slide/frame setup to work first, so the factory didn't have to fiddle with it.
As for replacing the whole gun if the frame turns out to be slightly out of spec - well, that's what you'd want 'em to do. It's just a nuisance have to go through the FFL/background check process again, when a "normal" repair comes directly back to your door. I've been through the replacement process, though, and there is NO extra cost - all the shipping is covered both ways and S&W reimburses the FFL/transfer fee too - it's just the nuisance of having to go to the FFL and then submit the receipt to S&W.
Bingo! The extractor is stuck. You can try pressing on the exposed end with something non-marring and see if the slips back into place.
Did you load a round through the ejection port and close the slide on it?
I don't have it in front of me currently but I think the slide changes made on the new 2.0 might include different machining in that area. But if it were stuck, every round would fail to extract. It extracted the first 50 or so fine and then started occurring every 5-10 rounds or so, with a sting of 3 malfunctions occurring withing 8 rounds of each other. First 50 rounds were federal brass 115gr with no problems and then the Winchester started causing issues.
Thanks for the reply, see my response above.
I would agree it's not fair to demand zero failures, I'm just basing my current experience off of past experiences. I would just hope not to have 9 failures to extract from a brand new go-to-war/duty pistol from a company with a great reputation, all within the first day to the range. Maybe I'm being ridiculous but I'd expect better performance.
Cheapskait
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An autoloader can function without an operable extractor as the fired case itself has momentum going toward the rear and there's residual gas pressure in the barrel. An example is the tip-up barrel Berettas which do not have extractors at all.
Throw some lube in there and try wiggling the extractor to free it up.
Walkingwolf
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That's true, I have both a SMC380, and a PA63 they both use the same extractor. The 380 is slightly smaller rim than the 9X18 so the extractor is really loose. The SMC though is completely reliable. The ejector is what really kicks the round out of the slide, without it the case would just be pushed back in. I would be surprised though if a new gun had a bad ejector.
Might try some compressed air, too.
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