MANDATORY classes for ccw?

Do you support MANDATORY firearms training for issuance of a concealed carry license?

  • YES

    Votes: 158 58.5%
  • NO

    Votes: 112 41.5%

  • Total voters
    270
  • Poll closed .
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SHOULD TRAINING BE MANDATORY FOR CC LIC'S

the fact that you already need to get a license is against the constitution. on the flip side pretty much any other lic req's proof of a certain level of skill, ex drivers, pilots, boating, Dr's, Nurses, almost any licensed profession. and I don't believe there is such a thing as too much knowledge/training/practice when it comes to guns especially. I would hope the individual seeks it out on their own. I for one would rather see a methhead get the cash drawer than be caught in the crossfire of a bunch of know nothing ccw licensed carriers in a crowded 7-11 regardless of their good intentions.
 
I figured someone would try to re-direct my point to that argument. If you've read the 2nd amendment it says you have the right to bear and keep arms, NOT to conceal carry! And don't give me that argument that you interpret it to mean you can keep and bear arms on your person.

My point (which wasn't obvious enough apparently) was that we use other deadly "things" and have to have training to use them, why not for a gun?

I'm sorry. You are saying you have the right not to conceal carry? Or, are saying that it says you specifically do not have the right to conceal carry. You don't think they covered slipping a snubbie flintlock in your pocket under the blanket "Keep and bear"? Wait until the left gets a hold of your theory.

So all those women packing purse guns were breaking the law back then, huh? I would be curious, because I don't know, to find out when and where was the first CCW permit issued? This was a reaction to ensure that previously illegal activity was controlled? I saw on Ebay they were selling John Hancocks original CCW permit. They wanted too much $$$ though. Coincidentally, it looks just like a copy of the Bill of Rights, go figure. ;)
 
Absolutely when it comes to training. Just because we have a 2nd Amendment doesn't mean every legally eligible to purchase and possess a firearm joker is qualified and safe to possess and carry same. I fear more the dilettante with a Wyatt Earp syndrome then any street criminal with a gun.
 
Mandatory classes, no. Some proof of competency, I think so. And even that may could be exempted from hunting license records. A person that buys an annual hunting license surely knows how to handle a firearm, wouldn't you think?
 
I figured someone would try to re-direct my point to that argument. If you've read the 2nd amendment it says you have the right to bear and keep arms, NOT to conceal carry! And don't give me that argument that you interpret it to mean you can keep and bear arms on your person.

My point (which wasn't obvious enough apparently) was that we use other deadly "things" and have to have training to use them, why not for a gun?

From Merriam-Webster:
bear arms
1
: to carry or possess arms
Another definition of bear is to give birth. I don't believe that was the intent of our founders.

What other deadly things are specifically addressed in the bill of rights?
 
I'm sorry. You are saying you have the right not to conceal carry? Or, are saying that it says you specifically do not have the right to conceal carry. You don't think they covered slipping a snubbie flintlock in your pocket under the blanket "Keep and bear"? Wait until the left gets a hold of your theory.

So all those women packing purse guns were breaking the law back then, huh? I would be curious, because I don't know, to find out when and where was the first CCW permit issued? This was a reaction to ensure that previously illegal activity was controlled? I saw on Ebay they were selling John Hancocks original CCW permit. They wanted too much $$$ though. Coincidentally, it looks just like a copy of the Bill of Rights, go figure. ;)

Well if you have ever bothered to read the 2nd amendment or any of the supreme court rulings regarding the amendment you would see that they (forefathers) never addressed concealed carry as we know and think of it. I wasn't saying either of what you ask. The supreme court may have if depending on your interpretation of the highlighted portion below. (quoted from Wikipedia, [not best source but quick])

In District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), the Supreme Court ruled that the Second Amendment "codified a pre-existing right" and that it "protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home"[9][10] but also stated that "the right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose". They also clarified that many longstanding prohibitions and restrictions on firearms possession listed by the Court are consistent with the Second Amendment.[11]

As to the legality of a woman carrying a weapon in her purse back then, well I'm not that old nor a legal scholar so I don't know and I bet you don't either.

Why would the left care what I say? I'm not expressing a theory, just an opinion as are you. I'm not against concealed carry at all. I just believe people with deadly weapons on their person should have some basic training on how and when to use one.
 
I fear more the dilettante with a Wyatt Earp syndrome then any street criminal with a gun.

With all respect, this is malarkey.^^^

Again, there are probably close to three quarters of a million
permits out in Georgia now, with no requirements
for training. I haven't heard of a rash of citizens
being gunned down by a "dilettante with a Wyatt
Earp syndrome." In fact, though, it isn't unusual
to hear of armed citizens, many of them women,
who haven't had a day of "mandate" training
successfully defending themselves.
Woman hiding with kids shoots intruder | www.wsbtv.com
This incident happened earlier this year.
I believe I read a report that stated the husband
bought her the revolver, took her to the range for
a few rounds, and told her to use it if needed.
 
Last edited:
No carry for old men!

Man.... I feel bad for the elderly folks who want to be able to carry a J frame for protection. I am sure they know their limitations. None of them want to be mall ninja heroes as some have talked about. They just want to be able to protect themselves from the thugs on the street.

Can they hit the target with great accuracy at 21 feet? Maybe maybe not. Can they use that J frame to protect against the thug at close range? Most likely. However, they would not be able to pass proficieny test.

Sorry grandpa. You did not get enough rounds on the paper at 7 yards. No concealed carry for you.
 
Man.... I feel bad for the elderly folks who want to be able to carry a J frame for protection. I am sure they know their limitations. None of them want to be mall ninja heroes as some have talked about. They just want to be able to protect themselves from the thugs on the street.

Can they hit the target with great accuracy at 21 feet? Maybe maybe not. Can they use that J frame to protect against the thug at close range? Most likely. However, they would not be able to pass proficieny test.

Sorry grandpa. You did not get enough rounds on the paper at 7 yards. No concealed carry for you.

That makes no sense. "Know their limitations" Ever try to take car keys from a senile or Alzheimer person? I did with my Dad it was horrible, Fortunately after taking and hiding his keys he eventually forgot about driving.

If they can not hit the paper at 7 yards, where do the stray bullets go, bystanders? If they can not pass a proficiency test of some kind (anyone, not just elderly) then they are safe to be around themselves or others?

I had to be certified to scuba dive. Who am I gonna hurt other than myself? No it's not in the Constitution.

But no problem we let them drive and abilities can fall off rapidly in 5 years or when ever their next renewal is. Live down here in Fl and you will see it every day. My neighbor who I love dearly is great guy, he is 93 or so. No he should not be driving but he is. He is a accident waiting to happen.
 
From Merriam-Webster:

Another definition of bear is to give birth. I don't believe that was the intent of our founders.

What was the intent of our forefathers???

You tell me after you READ what THEY WROTE:

“I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.”
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia’s Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

“A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves …”
Richard Henry Lee
writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic, Letter XVIII, May, 1788.

“The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full posession of them.”
Zachariah Johnson
Elliot’s Debates, vol. 3 “The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution.”

“… the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms”
Philadelphia Federal Gazette
June 18, 1789, Pg. 2, Col. 2
Article on the Bill of Rights

“And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …”
Samuel Adams
quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, “Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State”

“Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurrences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that’s good.”
George Washington
First President of the United States

“The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.”
Thomas Paine

“To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.”
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788

“The great object is that every man be armed.” and “Everyone who is able may have a gun.”
Patrick Henry
American Patriot

“Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?”
Patrick Henry
American Patriot

“Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not.”
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States

“The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that … it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; … “
Thomas Jefferson
letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5, 1824. ME 16:45.

“The best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed.”
Alexander Hamilton
The Federalist Papers at 184-8




The Supreme Court ruled that the 2nd amendment guaranteed our right to keep and carry guns. Don't you think they did a little research? :confused:
 
What was the intent of our forefathers???

You tell me after you READ what THEY WROTE:

“I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.”
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia’s Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

“A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves …”
Richard Henry Lee
writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic, Letter XVIII, May, 1788.

“The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full posession of them.”
Zachariah Johnson
Elliot’s Debates, vol. 3 “The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution.”

“… the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms”
Philadelphia Federal Gazette
June 18, 1789, Pg. 2, Col. 2
Article on the Bill of Rights

“And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …”
Samuel Adams
quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, “Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State”

“Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people’s liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurrences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that’s good.”
George Washington
First President of the United States

“The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.”
Thomas Paine

“To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.”
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788

“The great object is that every man be armed.” and “Everyone who is able may have a gun.”
Patrick Henry
American Patriot

“Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?”
Patrick Henry
American Patriot

“Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not.”
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States

“The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that … it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; … “
Thomas Jefferson
letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5, 1824. ME 16:45.

“The best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed.”
Alexander Hamilton
The Federalist Papers at 184-8




The Supreme Court ruled that the 2nd amendment guaranteed our right to keep and carry guns. Don't you think they did a little research? :confused:

I believe exactly as I did the first time I read all those quotes. The founders beleived in individual liberty. With that comes personal responsibility. The bill of rights was all about limiting government. Nowhere can I find where any of them addressed mandatory training for inherent rights. I don't believe that you and I are on opposing sides of this issue.

That is a pretty good collection of quotes you posted there. Thanks for gathering them together and posting them.
 
That makes no sense. "Know their limitations" Ever try to take car keys from a senile or Alzheimer person? I did with my Dad it was horrible, Fortunately after taking and hiding his keys he eventually forgot about driving.

If they can not hit the paper at 7 yards, where do the stray bullets go, bystanders? If they can not pass a proficiency test of some kind (anyone, not just elderly) then they are safe to be around themselves or others?

Got it. Anyone with carpal tunnel, arthritis or Parkinson's loses the right to protect themself just because they can't score high enough at the mandated distance. Thanks for making your stance clear.

And thanks or reading my post carefully. I was referring to people who might have a hard time hitting 7 yard targets, but could still hit a threat at ten feet. People not looking to stop mass shooters in malls, but want to be able to walk home without fear. I don't think I said anything about Alzheimer's. Nope, I double checked.

And getting into these training requirements, I hope it's in a situation with moving targets. Targets that move behind friendly cutouts. Since obviously self defense shootings ONLY occur in crowded malls and not in dark alleys. A stationary target isn't enough to ensure an individual is proficient.
 
That makes no sense. "Know their limitations" Ever try to take car keys from a senile or Alzheimer person? I did with my Dad it was horrible, Fortunately after taking and hiding his keys he eventually forgot about driving.

If they can not hit the paper at 7 yards, where do the stray bullets go, bystanders? If they can not pass a proficiency test of some kind (anyone, not just elderly) then they are safe to be around themselves or others?

I had to be certified to scuba dive. Who am I gonna hurt other than myself? No it's not in the Constitution.

But no problem we let them drive and abilities can fall off rapidly in 5 years or when ever their next renewal is. Live down here in Fl and you will see it every day. My neighbor who I love dearly is great guy, he is 93 or so. No he should not be driving but he is. He is a accident waiting to happen.

THAT makes no sense.

Way to judge an entire group of people based on the conditions of a few. The poster didnt even mention alzheimer's but you found it necessary to base your argument on alzheimers.

I'm pushing 70 and my aim and physical strength isn't was it once was. However I know I get hit center mass in close proximity. It's good I know who your friends are and who thinks you're a second class citizen undeserving of the right to protect yourself.
 
No. The Constitution provides the correct answer.

As a point of discussion, I believe the perceived risk from a lack of mandatory CC firearms training is WAY overblown.

Tennessee and Georgia share a border. Georgia requires no mandatory training. Tennessee requires 8hrs including range time. Does anyone here have information showing that Georgia permit holders are significantly more dangerous than those of us here in Tennessee? If you do, I'd be interested to see it.
 
It sounds like not only do you want to check up on proficiency, but also to make sure an applicant has the right attitude.

Are you going to be the "attitude and reason checker"?:(

(To "allot" means to dole out, or to distribute, or to assign a share. "A lot" is two words, and means a great many, or a large number. 'Scuse me for pointing that out, but that is a pet peeve of mine. Maybe you want to "allot" carry licenses?:rolleyes:)

Correcting grammar on this forum? Talk about a slippery slope... Especially since you failed to point out the person who feels we have a "right to bare arms". Sleeveless shirts shall not be infringed! But he was on your side of the argument, so maybe it's okay then..:confused:
 
No. The Constitution provides the correct answer.

As a point of discussion, I believe the perceived risk from a lack of mandatory CC firearms training is WAY overblown.

Tennessee and Georgia share a border. Georgia requires no mandatory training. Tennessee requires 8hrs including range time. Does anyone here have information showing that Georgia permit holders are significantly more dangerous than those of us here in Tennessee? If you do, I'd be interested to see it.

I don't know about that but I found something interesting and scary. The title of the statistics seems to be written by someone with a particular point of view.

From VPC - The Violence Policy Center - Concealed Carry Killers
"Private Citizens Killed by Concealed Carry Killers
May 2007 to the Present"


Tennessee 15
Georgia 5
Texas 33

Maybe it's time to relocate? :eek:
 
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