MANDATORY classes for ccw?

[woodsltc]

It's amazing that so many are willing to jeopardize their gun rights.

Not until they have actually bargained away those rights will they realize what they have done & what they have lost. Then it will be too late.

Don

 

[deadin]

Make the training mandatory but don’t make not learning anything from the training disqualify you from having a gun or carry permit……?????? How’s that supposed to work?? You can’t have it both ways. If you have to take training there needs to be some form of a final test to show that you can qualify in whatever areas are required or it means nothing. I could pay my money and just sit there and play Angry Birds on my cell for the required amount of time because I couldn’t flunk. (Kind of like some of our High Schools….)

 

[Lost Lake]

VERY good post. And the word "MANDATORY" does NOT automatically make it bad. What about MANDATORY safety TRAINING (not just education) in gun handling in school? Is that unquestionably bad, without reading anything into the question?

Think about it!

If training were mandatory, the ONLY entity that could possibly mandate it would be the same entity that issues the permit!

So mandatory means government approved.

And when you make it mandatory at a national level, that means Federal Government Approved.

Now stop and think about who's running the government right now. You want to give that kind of power to these guys???

 

[kisportolt]

A well thought out argument.

So, you're telling me that if the government said you may not own or carry a gun, you wouldn't feel like you're rights were being infringed upon?

OK. Sure. I believe you.

You're saying you'd be ok with that decision and just try again next month after an paying another $100 or so for the exam? And be OK with it?

OK. Gotcha.



I'm sure if one of these in favor of mandatory government infringement didn't pass the test and wasn't allowed to possess a gun they'd be raising Caine.

Michigan requires it already, and I already passed the training. You guy are making it sound like if they require training for CC, it'll be that you have to complete the Ironman or recite the entire Constitution. (which I think has already been done on this thread...)

So if the required training is anything like what multiple state government requirements are, I'd be fine with it.

 

[Damn Yankee]

Mississippi is going open carry the first of July.I did not read about and mandatory training in the bill.

So if you cover your sidearm with a coat you need mandatory training?

 

[deadin]

Am I beginning to sniff the odor of elitism here and there in this thread??

 

[MrJT]

Michigan requires it already, and I already passed the training. You guy are making it sound like if they require training for CC, it'll be that you have to complete the Ironman or recite the entire Constitution. (which I think has already been done on this thread...)

So if the required training is anything like what multiple state government requirements are, I'd be fine with it.

You're naive if you think that if they were to institute mandatory nationwide training requirements they'd keep the cost and requirements reasonable.

I don't trust them as much as you.

 

[ladder13]

I, for one, would like to thank ladder13 for a comprehensive listing of folks to add to my ignore list.

You're welcome Mike.

 

[ladder13]

Sometimes you people frustrate me and sometimes you make me laugh.

After reading the OP s l o w l y I came away with a several observations: (not meant to be critical to ladder13, just what this poor soul sees)

The questions says nothing about who will administer or oversee the class.

The question says nothing about having to pass a test. (written or proficiency)

The question says nothing about infringing your right to carry a weapon, it just asks about taking a class.

The question says nothing about having to pay for the class or how long the class would be.

The question says nothing about exceptions (military or LEOs) to taking the class or alternatives.

The question says nothing about differentiating between murders and law abiding citizens.

I think everyone has biases or reads into the question things that weren't there. If there had been anything that pointed to government interference or control I would have voted differently. I tried to take it at face value. And to those who keep saying that people who voted YES must want more government control of guns, I think that's a very unfair characterization. I'd be willing to bet no one on the forum wants more gun control. What I see is people saying they want safe use of guns.

_________________________________
mama said - play nice

I haven't seen your poll, do you have a link?

 

[ladder13]

You also refuse to state where you live.


Are you embarrassed to say so?

You also refuse to properly write a proper paragraph and ignore proper English punctuation.

refuse???? didn't hear anyone axe me either question.
99% of the people here know where I live. And after seeing some of the responses from those who claim to live in "free states", I'm not ashamed at all where I live.
I apologized for my education in the same post. Does this reply satisfy your requirements for proper English?

 

[Lost Lake]

Michigan requires it already, and I already passed the training. You guy are making it sound like if they require training for CC, it'll be that you have to complete the Ironman or recite the entire Constitution. (which I think has already been done on this thread...)

So if the required training is anything like what multiple state government requirements are, I'd be fine with it.

I see a lot of ' IF's ' in your post...

Let me add one: IF the Federal Government wants to cut out your right to own a gun, and mandatory training is the law, they can easily change the training requirements and remove your right.


.

 

[SW_shooter]

I haven't seen your poll, do you have a link?

uhm, no? I don't have a poll or a link. Do I need one? Where do I get one? Do I need a mandatory class to get one? Will the government find out if I do have one? Will the black helicopters circle my home if I have one?


I guess I'm in the 1% and on the list of those to be ignored.

_____________________________________
I'm here to make friends & influence people

 

[Realzebub45]

I haven't seen your poll, do you have a link?

Oh, wait a minute. Now I know what you are talking about. That was childish of me. ,

Here is a link to a nice Pole...

Google Image Result for http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_NjiqlWNg5_Y/S8t7fuJWRpI/AAAAAAAAAAk/r7NJds5ttJM/s1600/61480226v.jpg

 

[kisportolt]

You're naive if you think that if they were to institute mandatory nationwide training requirements they'd keep the cost and requirements reasonable.

I don't trust them as much as you.

I see a lot of ' IF's ' in your post...

Let me add one: IF the Federal Government wants to cut out your right to own a gun, and mandatory training is the law, they can easily change the training requirements and remove your right.

For a group of people so passionate about our Constitution, there seems to be a real lack of faith in the 'checks and balances' portion.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Michigan requires it already, and I already passed the training. You guy are making it sound like if they require training for CC, it'll be that you have to complete the Ironman or recite the entire Constitution. (which I think has already been done on this thread...)

So if the required training is anything like what multiple state government requirements are, I'd be fine with it.

It's true that those who rely on the Constitution support their case at length, using language from the Constitution, specific quotes from founders and others from that period for supporting context, and provide current examples of government abuses. On the flip side, the argument is basically-- I'm afraid of idiots with guns and stray bullets in self defense shootings, so I support mandatory training. -- Okay... I get that. But is it a reality or fantasy that mandatory training is of measurable benefit for the idiot factor?

I have repeatedly asked those who support mandatory training to illustrate how GA permit holders are measurably more dangerous or have significantly more incidents than the border state of TN. And if so, were the increase in incidents reasonably preventable with mandatory training? No reply so far. You show to live in Michigan. Indiana is a border state. Indiana does not require training for a carry permit. Can you demonstrate that Indiana has significantly more stray bullets fired by permit holders in self defense, injuring or killing significantly more innocent bystanders than Michigan which has mandatory training? I don't know if there is or is not. But if someone really believes that mandatory training should be required, should they not have a strong basis in fact before placing mandates upon others?

Afraid of idiots- I'll use this one by Poodle as an example-- Why? I know people who shouldn't be trusted to tie their own shoe laces with out hanging them selves THATS why..

Yeah, I have known idiots too. If an idiot who should not be trusted to tie his shoelaces without hanging himself walks into a mandatory training class, does anyone really expect anything more than the same idiot to walk out a few hours later?

It's been my experience that the idiots Poodle is afraid of have a common ailment, they cannot or will not listen and learn. That's why they are idiots. They'll do enough to get by in a carry class, they always do. And in the very rare event anyone doesn't pass the test, does anyone expect a true idiot as Poodle describes to not carry anyway?

My position on this subject will not change because it is rooted in the Constitution. It a real document written by real people to protect real things in my life. I can examine countries without it and see significant differences. Is the fear of risk from lack of mandatory training real or fantasy?

 

[SW_shooter]

Phil I don't disagree with your assessment or statement. (idiots are idiots and will remain idiots) I don't know where to look for your proof you want, I'm not even sure it exists frankly. I think we can agree that the type of people that will do bad things with a gun are not the type of people who will go get a legal CCW, permit, license or whatever you want to call it. They will stick a pistol in the waist band of their baggy *** pants and talk about putting a cap in someone's ***. They're thugs and thieves, they don't care what the law is because they have no intention of obeying it anyway.

Here's what I find ironic about this thread. Guys keep saying they don't want their "rights" infringed or trampled by the government. Well neither do I. BUT, the men that wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights WERE the government at the time. The current government doesn't share the same mentality as the forefathers and we have good cause to be afraid.

ladder13 used the word mandatory and it has caused a firestorm of controversy. I see what guys are afraid of with the idea of them being told they have to do something to keep or utilize a right that the original bill of rights laid forth.

Will mandatory training get rid of the idiots, nope. I still fear the guy with the pistol/gun who thinks he can brandish it about without thought of his actions or the consequences thereof. This is not the old west and we do not get to take the law into our own hands. Currently anyone can get their hands on a weapon whether its via legal or illegal means. Mandatory or voluntary classes aren't going to curtail that process at all.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I think we'd all agree that what we want it to see the gun grabbers focus their attention on the people who will do bad things with guns. And since no one can predict the actions of others (that Tom Cruise movie was so cool because they could) this country should make the penalty for committing a crime with a weapon very severe.

Maybe a deterrent would be more effective than a restriction.

 

[DeathGrip]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I think we'd all agree that what we want it to see the gun grabbers focus their attention on the people who will do bad things with guns. And since no one can predict the actions of others this country should make the penalty for committing a crime with a weapon very severe.

Maybe a deterrent would be more effective than a restriction.

Agree, We already have some pretty good laws concerning weapons crimes. Now is the time we need to enforce them to the fullest extent. Not putting them in a jail with cable TV, weight rooms and other such things to make their stay more comfy. Just the essentials for survival. HARD labor is a good way to make most never want to go back. Most.

 

[woodsltc]

Agree, We already have some pretty good laws concerning weapons crimes. Now is the time we need to enforce them to the fullest extent. Not putting them in a jail with cable TV, weight rooms and other such things to make their stay more comfy. Just the essentials for survival. HARD labor is a good way to make most never want to go back. Most.

+1....We need Sheriff Joe Arpaio's (Maricopa County,AZ) example to be copied on a country-wide basis and at every level (local,state and federal). Put some teeth in "doing time".

Don

 

[Plinker1962]

I think training for concealed or open carry should be mandatory. If you purchase a handgun, and you're in a state that allows open and concealed carry, training comes with the purchase. In states with no open carry, training should be mandatory before your CCW is issued.

 

[ladder13]

No one should be attacked, no matter what their opinion is!

Agreed, not personally. Or on how they spell, structure a sentence, where they live, etc etc