Matech BUIS with stock front sight question

[grb]

Yes, this is my first post, so please go easy and forgive any lingo errors. I've searched the 15-22 forum on the topic, but couldn't find my answer.

I picked up my 15-22 (811033) a few weeks ago and have shot a few hundred rounds through it. It's an absolute blast and very affordable shooting, so long as you can find the ammo

On to my point, I immediately mounted a Mueller reflex sight and removed the stock rear sight because it obstructed my aiming with both eyes open. The red dot witnessed perfectly with the front sight w/o adjustment and I prefer to shoot it that way.

After some self debate, I picked up the Matech BUIS Flip-Up rear sight used by the military so I could resort to iron sights should my reflex sight die or I want to shoot "old school". The problem is after putting the BUIS on I had to adjust the elevation setting all the way back to the 600M mark to even be in the ballpark with the red dot and front sight. I'd like it all in line with the BUIS set on the 300M or zeroing mark at 25-50 yds.

Now the question (finally, right?), Am I opening a can of worms if I start adjusting the front sight to properly witness with the BUIS, followed by adjusting the reflex sight to get everything in line?
Can I "adjust/modify" the BUIS first to get it closer? Or should I just throw it in the trash?

Thanks in advance, this forum has been very imformative and educational.

 

[Kayback]

They are not meant to all be in line.

Aligning the irons and the red dot, even with an "absolute co witness" (When all the aiming systems are on the same pane) is incorrect.

The two sighting systems are not that compatible as they work differently.

You zero the iron sight - the front and back- then you zero the red dot . You need to shoot groups with each sighting system to ensure zero.

It's kinda like asking to get the 8-track and the 3D Blue Ray to both display on the screen at the same time, in the same box.

KBK

 

[Dikinalaska]

While Kayback brings up an interesting point, I have mine absolute cowitnessed. Whether it's right or wrong was unknown to me. I sighted in my irons where I wanted first and when I installed my Strikefire it was near perfectly in line. Slight adjustment to the red dot and all 3 line up perfectly now. When looking through the peephole (the larger aperture) the red dot is right in the center and perfectly at the tip of my front post. When using the optic I just use it and the front post though.

 

[Kayback]

That's just it though, you shouldn't be using the optic "with" anything. The optic is a stand alone sighting system.

Because they are all aiming at the same place they should all be more or less in line with each other, yes. However the whole design concept of the RDS is you don't need to line anything up. See dot, put dot on target, squeeze trigger. This is why it is faster and better than using irons in the first place. It also means you can get almost as good shots off without having a totally correct cheek weld. Taking the time to line things ups is slowing you down and not how things are meant to be done.

It is like manually selecting the automatic option every time.

KBK

 

[cyphertext]

If you sight in your iron sights first, you can then roughly site in the red dot by looking through the irons and moving the red dot to where it aligns with the front post with the sight picture you like. That will get you close on paper.

However, I have my irons sighted at a different distance than my red dot is sighted for, so they don't line up perfectly. Like Kayback said, use one or the other, not both at the same time. Sight them in individually and don't worry about how they line up with each other.

Also, how do you intend to use that Matech on a .22lr? The yardage markers will not work...they aren't designed for a .22lr. My best guess would be to put the rear sight on the line for zero and use the front sight to adjust elevation at 25 yards. That should put you a little high at 50 yards, and close to zero at 75 yards.

ETA....or maybe you could put it on the 100 and sight it in for 25 yards, then see what it does for each additional elevation setting. Guess you could make a chart... let me know how it works out for you.

 

[Dikinalaska]

That's just it though, you shouldn't be using the optic "with" anything. The optic is a stand alone sighting system.

Because they are all aiming at the same place they should all be more or less in line with each other, yes. However the whole design concept of the RDS is you don't need to line anything up. See dot, put dot on target, squeeze trigger. This is why it is faster and better than using irons in the first place. It also means you can get almost as good shots off without having a totally correct cheek weld. Taking the time to line things ups is slowing you down and not how things are meant to be done.

It is like manually selecting the automatic option every time.

KBK

But you don't HAVE to line anything up. I still just rely on the red dot when I'm using it. It just happens that my front post is there too. My front post doesn't flip down is why I leave it there. Otherwise I would be removing it completely when not in use which kind of defeats the purpose of being back-up. Whenever I bring my rifle up to shooting position they're just naturally lined up, I'm never looking to line them up. And even if you were trying to line them up, it wouldnt be any different than trying to line up your front and rear irons as long as they're dialed in at the same distance. I agree on the not needing proper cheek weld with the red dot, as long as you can see the dot from any angle, and that dot is on target, that's where it's gonna hit.

 

[Kayback]

Yeah I think we're on the same page

I have heard of people trying to line all 3 up (front, dot, rear) and that isn't how it is meant to go. It MAY go like that, but it isn't MEANT to.

For example it only works if you using an absolute co witness. A lower 1/3 and trying to line the dot and front sight up = mortar or AA gun

KBK

 

[Dikinalaska]

Ya sounds like I just went about explaining it a little the wrong way. In the end if you can hit what you want, whichever way gets you there is the right one lol.

 

[grb]

Thanks for the replies, guys.
I'm not going to tweak anything until I get back to the range and start with the iron sights first. I don't think the Matech is as far off as I first indicated.
Then, I guess I just need to learn to trust the red dot. I'm only using it in conjunction with the front sight for a security blanket, if you will.

cyphertext,
I realize the distance numbers on the Matech do not relate to the .22, but as you stated, once I get it zero'd I can develop a chart for what each distance setting works at with the .22. I like the idea of having some distance adjustment. I may find out it's irrelevant on a .22, but it'll be fun figuring that out.

 

[grb]

On a slightly different topic (my inexperience is about to show here),
When aiming with the iron sights is the target supposed to be at the top of the center sight as in photo 1?
Or across the top as in photo 2? I've been told both.
I'm using the reflex sight for illustrative purposes only, since I don't know the correct terminology of the front sight components.

 

[cyphertext]

Please let me know what you find with that sight. It would be pretty cool if the markers could correlate to 25 yard increments.

 

[Maddmax]

Or should I just throw it in the trash?

Thanks in advance, this forum has been very imformative and educational.

NEVER EVER throw ANYTHING weapon related away. It's called a parts bin and you just add "stuff" to that. We all have them and that part could be handy for something some where else down the road. Also goo for trading some day. Given time,you will acquire more parts. Sooo,it doesn't hurt to get matchable stackable parts bins.

 

[Dikinalaska]

On a slightly different topic (my inexperience is about to show here),
When aiming with the iron sights is the target supposed to be at the top of the center sight as in photo 1?
Or across the top as in photo 2? I've been told both.
I'm using the reflex sight for illustrative purposes only, since I don't know the correct terminology of the front sight components.

Mine is set up like your first picture. That's how I use the irons, with the tip of the post on what I'm aiming at so that's where I have my dot. That's why I was saying I use the front post and red dot. I don't actually look for the front post though, just acquire the red dot and it happens to be on the post.

 

[Kayback]

I've set mine up like the first one. I do now know if it correct or not.

With pistol sights it is meant to be across the top.

I'm glad that didn't help at all

KBK