May I say what most of us already know?

[murphydog]

As several others mentioned, "what is this gun worth" has several possible reasons behind it.

If the question is how much one can expect to pay for a particular gun, the Internet and to a lesser extent printed guides can answer that with ease, and with a known condition and enough recorded sales a fair degree of accuracy in the gun-friendly states. This would have been nearly impossible 20 years ago, as no one could track national prices on the scale possible today.

There is a lot more subjectivity built into for how much a gun should sell. Some people will trust data, some will say "there's no way I'd sell this for less than...", and there is no way to put a value on family heirlooms, guns with a personal history, or associated with a famous prior owner.

Then, throw in the "must buy at all costs" factor that afflicts most of us at one time or another, guns that appear in movies, auction bidder wars for no apparent clear reason, cult guns that skyrocket in price, normal to abnormal appreciation in value...it's all fun, and sometimes scary to watch.

 

[Pef]

I don't see a problem with such inquiries.

Beside, I always ask what each of you would pay, not what it's worth.

 

[gdogs]

Lots of good points here, including the OP's. However, is SaxonPig saying that he would sell that 25-5 right now for $500? If he isn't, then it is clearly worth more than that - to him (a little bit of clarification to my point). I get what he is saying, and he's almost right. Almost in my mind meaning, an item isn't worth what you would pay for something, but rather what someone else would pay for it.

Since there is little question that this post is due to a certain nickel K-22, let me ask this. If you put that revolver on an auction site with a Buy It Now of $250 how long would it last? I'm guessing minutes, not hours, much less days. Is it then only worth $250? Of course not. That's simply what it sold for to the lucky chap that happened to be watching the auctions at that particular moment. It's no different than being the first one to spy a 622VR at a gunshow with a price of $159, like I did recently. Is it only worth that much because that's what I paid? I can guarantee you that I would have paid much more. I can also guarantee you that you couldn't buy it from me for that.

Take for example a Mod 18-3 that was on gonebroker recently. Finish wise it was raggedy. Patina if you want to call it that, I'd call it 10% original blue at best. Seller described it as very good mechanically. I watched it go through twice with a BIN price of $349 before it finally sold. This was a shooter 18, nothing more. I find it hard to believe that you could say it was worth more than a really nice aftermarket nickel 5 screw K-22. To the serious S&W collector neither of these guns are of interest, but that doesn't mean it's value is nothing.

Research is the key, and we should probably acknowledge that this site isn't the best place to answer the question "what is it worth". While you can find plenty of posts where people state how much they paid for a certain gun, it is much easier, and more accurate to do some completed listing searches on the auctions sites (if for no other reason than there are usually more than 1 particular gun that sold to base the answer off of). Like them or not, the auctions are a very good barometer of what prices are doing nationwide. My point is, for the average guy that isn't on the forum everyday reading about and researching S&W's, it is a complete waste of his time to tell him what the gun is "worth to me", simply because he is not me. That does not mean however that there isn't an answer. Yes it may be a range rather than a specific number, but throwing out a price of $250 for that K-22 simply isn't accurate when the question is "what is it worth".

Just my two cents. I would also like to say that I'm thankful that this forum is a place where we can have a discussion without it turning ugly... like so many other forums we've all seen.

 

[StatesRightist]

I can't agree with the OP. I think when several people chime in from various parts of the contry, we wind up with a consensus on the value range, which to me anyways is interesting. If someone believes such threads are a waste of time, the obvious solution for him would be to move on to the next thread.

I'm a firm believer in letting people discuss what they want to discuss, within the Forum Rules, of course. I find a lot of topics boring so I skip over them, no problem. Let folks discuss boxes / belt buckles / etc all they want, and more power to them. Nobody ever said that every thread has to be written to please me.

I can't agree that stocks bought for $15 years ago are worth $15 in today's market. Besides, that contradicts the statement that "Any item is worth exactly what someone will pay for it." Actually, I do not agree with either sentiment, but I don't want to drone on any longer so ...

I agree. There is a lot of knowledge in this forum and even if, like me, you have a pretty good idea what the gun is worth, it's nice to get some secondary opinions. I enjoy the back and forth discussion between and appreciate the knowledge base in this group. Sometimes, it helps to hear your thinking is on track and it's just the "I want it fever."

Like anything else, some of us know a little more about one area, others know more about something else...it's part of the appeal of the forum to me. The chance to learn something.

 

[punxsutawneypete]

I have to plead guilty to asking here about a price for a particular gun. But then, in all of society, don't we all build on the knowledge and discoveries that have been developed before? The term I've always heard is "due diligence."

 

[BCDWYO]

I have to agree with gdogs. The real value of YOUR gun to you, is what you WOULD sell it for, not what you paid for it. The real value of your gun to everyone else may be a different number (ie what you CAN sell it for). I think it is interesting to read these threads sometimes (especially if it is a model I'm interested in or a model I own). There are unquestionably regional differences. Ultimately the best guage nationally for what a gun is "worth" is probably some sort of average of what a fair number of them have sold for on auction sites. Getting to that number does require some homework.

 

[blujax01]

It depends on if you're buying or selling...

The guy who posts that "You paid too much. I've seen a half dozen for $100 less." is the same guy crying about being "lowballed by some unscrupulous table-jockey" at the gun show when he goes to sell it.

I agree with the original premise. In any transaction, an item is worth exactly what it brings - not one penny more or less.

 

[ruger-p94]

I am fairly new to the site as well, and since there is a vast amount of knowledge here, this was the place to go. For me a gun is just a gun. I made a trade for my nickel 13-3..95% condition... and just wanted to find some info on it. I am not a collector and just wanted a revolver to take to the range every week to shoot. Before I found this site I chucked the box and paperwork because to me that is just clutter. If a deal comes along and you got the money in the pocket and the wife just got back from the hairdresser...go for it.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

While I do agree with what SaxonPig writes, it's not really the whole story. For most guns and situations, there is also a price at which the potential buyer can expect to resell the gun. This varies, of course, with the location, and with the time and effort the seller is willing to put into making a sale. Nevertheless, some people are concerned with what this number is. Certainly, Fugate and Rutter and others are well aware of this number for many guns, perhaps more so than some sellers. Of course, mainly, they are set up to sell, and are willing to put the work into it.

My guess is that most folks who ask are those who don't know what that number is, for their area and circumstances of sale, and want to feel that they were not taken. For them, SP's answer is appropriate and correct, both. However, there is usually an underlying number that represents recent sales in that area.

 

[Stick895]

If it's a search for information "What is the value" I think is a valid question. What is the poster going to DO with the information? If it's only for validation or affirmation of a gun already bought, what's the point? Other than for self flagellation or congratulation? Like mpg on a car. What difference does it make if you already own it? Are you going to sell it then? Just my $.02

 

[Art Doc]

bettis1- I agree with you that there are times when such value questions are logical, like from someone who doesn't know about guns and came into an inheritance. My point is that answering such questions is nearly impossible.

gdogs- What I would sell the gun for doesn't determine the value, it's what someone else will pay for it. I may offer it at $500 and it might get snapped up... by a buyer who WOULD have paid $600. That makes the gun worth $600 and I sold short. Or maybe I offer it at $500 and it languishes, unsold. That means the buyers think it's worth less and since they make the call, it is indeed worth less. It was worth $500 TO ME, and that doesn't mean ANYONE else would necessarily agree on that value.

One response said we tend to be on the same page with values. I disagree. Often, many times in fact, the values quoted are all over the map. A few months ago someone asked about a 4" 27-2. One member said $500 and another said the gun would sell for $1,200 where he lives. That's not on the same page. That's hardly the same book. Nobody is lying, each member stated what he thinks it would bring in his area, or maybe what he would pay for it. The bottom line is it's up to the buyer to decide and it's not really possible for some third party on a discussion forum to nail an exact value... or even a close one.

 

[Garland]

Some of the "how much?" threads take unexpected interesting turns, especially when photos are posted and a resident expert notices a little something special. I often learn something new, and am frequently amazed at how much information can be ganished from a fairly poor description or picture.

 

[hsguy]

This is a very interesting thread and agree with the several posters who have opined that by averaging the various valuations offered on a gun a reasonable figure can be deduced. I always discount the "I bought the same gun for much less" figures as these tend to be one time aberrations rather than a reflection of market reality. As others have offered a search of completed auctions is a good tool to aid in valuations, again I would discount extremely high or low single sales in the average as they may reflect an event such as an ego driven bidding was or such.

I think perhaps a more valuable service provided by forums such as this one is the opportunity for a buyer to post a query about the nature of a gun. Good clear photos and descriptions allow a prospective buyer to determine if a gun is "straight" and not refinished or modified. I see almost weekly posts for example of refinished, chopped, caliber converted Victory models and suspect the identification of such has saved many potential purchasers a fair amount of grief and money.

I am no expert in any area but have worked the last 5 years buying and selling used firearms for a high volume large retailer and am a bit comfortable in determining the potential market value of some firearms based upon my observations of how quickly they will sell and at what price. However, given the tens or even hundreds of thousands of different firearms produced I realize that doing research and due diligence on guns I am not familiar with is an important part of my job as it should be for any buyer or seller. I appreciate the opinions offered on this forum about valuations and can accept or reject them as makes sense to me. Several posters have offered the opinion "a item is worth what you are willing to pay for it", while that is true in the literal sense I think it is a bit of a trite answer and think a reasonable offer of average value can be offered and research into a sufficiently large sample of recently completed auctions or sales will reflect what others have thought a gun was worth. A well-worn model 10 is not a $1000 gun in my opinion even if one could locate a single sale of one that went for that price. I think a query about the relative market value of such a gun would reveal a reasonable price to pay for such an item with the qualification that certain factors such as geography etc. will certainly play a role in local prices. I suppose this is a long-winded way of saying that I don't mind seeing "what is it worth" posts and do try to respond with my opinion if I think it would be useful.

 

[gdogs]

gdogs- What I would sell the gun for doesn't determine the value, it's what someone else will pay for it. I may offer it at $500 and it might get snapped up... by a buyer who WOULD have paid $600. That makes the gun worth $600 and I sold short. Or maybe I offer it at $500 and it languishes, unsold. That means the buyers think it's worth less and since they make the call, it is indeed worth less. It was worth $500 TO ME, and that doesn't mean ANYONE else would necessarily agree on that value.

I absolutely agree that what you would ask for it (if selling it) does not necessarily represent what it is worth. I do however feel that it is a better representation of "what it is worth to you", than what you paid for it. I own guns that aren't for sale regardless of price, some of which I paid far less for than what I would have. So "to me" they are indeed priceless, but that isn't "what they are worth", neither is the ridiculously low price I may have paid for them.

 

[nipster]

One response said we tend to be on the same page with values. I disagree. Often, many times in fact, the values quoted are all over the map. A few months ago someone asked about a 4" 27-2. One member said $500 and another said the gun would sell for $1,200 where he lives. That's not on the same page. That's hardly the same book. Nobody is lying, each member stated what he thinks it would bring in his area, or maybe what he would pay for it. The bottom line is it's up to the buyer to decide and it's not really possible for some third party on a discussion forum to nail an exact value... or even a close one.

See, this is where I completely disagree.

In the case of a few recent threads such as "the $250 nickel pre-17" and "the $400 29-2". I think responses such as these are bogus and counterproductive to "price checks" and I think your example 4" 27-2 for $500 falls into that same category, because honestly, despite location, the only way you would ever see prices like that is if it is a case of:
1. a pricing error on someone's part (possibly due to misidentification of the firearm)
2. the firearm is stolen / used in a crime or suicide and someone is trying to dump it cheap. You obviously do not want to buy an illegal gun, but I have known people to get good deals on suicide guns, if you can live with the history of it
3. a situation where the seller truly has no clue as to the value of the firearm (happens very rarely these days)
4. a situation where the seller is trying to dump the guns quickly for personal reasons (death, divorce, other) and does not care about profit

I am sure I am missing a few reasons, but geographic differences do not account for a swing of $400+ dollars or 50% off retail in an selling price usually.

I think sometimes, especially here, there are 2 types of buyers/sellers, the collector and the shooter, the possibly a third, hybrid of the two. The collectors tend to be snobs and will not pay anything other than $200 apparently for anything less than a 99% gun with box, papers, letter, tools, and a piece of Roy Jink's hair. And have no problem telling sellers that their firearm is worth no more than what they are willing to pay for it.

 

[wetdog]

Very good thread. All very interesting points of view. My wheels are turning and I give "Likes" to all. That's why I enjoy this forum so much.

 

[StatesRightist]

See, this is where I completely disagree.

In the case of a few recent threads such as "the $250 nickel pre-17" and "the $400 29-2". I think responses such as these are bogus and counterproductive to "price checks" and I think your example 4" 27-2 for $500 falls into that same category, because honestly, despite location, the only way you would ever see prices like that is if it is a case of:
1. a pricing error on someone's part (possibly due to misidentification of the firearm)
2. the firearm is stolen / used in a crime or suicide and someone is trying to dump it cheap. You obviously do not want to buy an illegal gun, but I have known people to get good deals on suicide guns, if you can live with the history of it
3. a situation where the seller truly has no clue as to the value of the firearm (happens very rarely these days)
4. a situation where the seller is trying to dump the guns quickly for personal reasons (death, divorce, other) and does not care about profit

I am sure I am missing a few reasons, but geographic differences do not account for a swing of $400+ dollars or 50% off retail in an selling price usually.

I think sometimes, especially here, there are 2 types of buyers/sellers, the collector and the shooter, the possibly a third, hybrid of the two. The collectors tend to be snobs and will not pay anything other than $200 apparently for anything less than a 99% gun with box, papers, letter, tools, and a piece of Roy Jink's hair. And have no problem telling sellers that their firearm is worth no more than what they are willing to pay for it.

I think there is also a group on here who get off on ruining other people's good times and purposely post pure B.S. You could post you found a Pre 27 3 1/2 in mint condition, box etc for $600 at an estate sale and there would be a couple of the same predictable people posting they saw three just like it at their LGS or gun show for $400 and you got taken.

I just asked a value question and got some great advice from knowledgeable guys, real, truthful advice...I'm very grateful for it. There are many stand up, decent guys on here. I think that's more the norm, but, there are a few unhappy people who try to ruin your day as well on here.

JMO

 

[zelda]

The delete

 

[StatesRightist]

There is a legitimate price range, which is affected by location. However, there is also an established range as GB and other sites prove. In the case of the gun I'm looking for $800-$1100 for a 624. It's the prices, thoughts etc outside that range that I was addressing. It's the guy that throws out $500 or $1500 that's in left field.

To get back on thread, I think the ability to have all of the knowledge on this forum available to you for advice and learning that is it's number one attraction. I'm grateful to those who will share their knowledge.

 

[bullmack]

Many, perhaps most of the threads on the forum ask "What is this gun worth?"

I think most of us understand that there is no definitive answer to this question. There are simply too many variables such as the condition of the gun, the presence of accessories, etc. Geographical location can sharply impact gun values. A gun that sells for $500 in Tennessee may only bring $350 in New Mexico... or $1,200 in California. Your friend buys a gun for $400 and you see the exact same gun sell on Gunbroker for $900. Is it worth $400 or $900? What is any gun really worth?

The last Smith I bought was a 25-5 with a 4" pinned barrel. I paid $550 for it. I'd call it 95% but it had incorrect post-1982 stocks on it. I sold those for $65 and put on a correct set of targets that I bought years ago for $15. I figure this makes the actual purchase price right at $500. To me a 4" 25-5 in 95% condition is therefore worth $500. But I bet if I posted a message asking what this particular gun is worth I would get a variety of responses. I bet the estimates would range from $400 (or less) to $1,000 (or more). Who would be right? Nobody. The gun is worth $500 because that's what I paid for it.

Any item is worth exactly what someone will pay for it. I can say my guns are worth a million bucks each but that don't make it so. Each individual considering a gun purchase has to decide how much any particular gun is worth TO HIM. Nobody's opinion matters other than the actual buyer. A truthful answer to the question regarding value would be a fairly wide range, like "In most cases a nice 25-5 will bring $400-$700 with adjustments for condition, location, the time of day, who is shopping, etc., etc., etc." But naming a specific value is virtually impossible.

So, the requests for the value on guns are fairly useless exercises... especially if one is asking about a gun one has already purchased (which happens all the time). My suggestion is, if you just bought it, it's worth exactly what you paid for it and it doesn't matter who may or may not agree with you. It was YOUR decision to make. Asking "Did I get a good deal?" may make more sense. But again, does the buyer really care if others think it was a good deal? The buyer was obviously comfortable with the price, and that is all that counts.

That's my thinking, anyway.

SP - I agree with a lot of your post but not "So, the requests for the value on guns are fairly useless exercises". I've only started collecting S&W's in the last 2 years. The model lineup was completely foreign to me when I began. I've learned a lot from this forum. I regularly watch 30-40 auctions on GB just to track prices. I scour the tables at my LGS for Smith's and watch the price points that sit on tables forever. Yet there are rare and/or sought after model variations that I do not have a clue where the price points are. In those instances the "what's it worth" questions do prove useful.