Might switch from 357 to 38 for carry

[BabaBlueJay]

I carry a 686 and while I know that this combat magnum was designed for heavy use of the cartridge I am starting to wonder if this is prudent for carry. I currently use Winchester Silvertips and they perform great in terms of reliability, accuracy, expansion, and follow-up shots. As I approach the time of year where I buy bulk ammo, I have noticed that Gold Dots have finally become available in bulk online for great prices. I know that 38 is less powerful, however, I think the lower recoil, less penetration, and faster follow-ups could outweigh the lower velocity. I was just curious what others with revolvers chambered in 357 choose to carry between the two and why?

 

[ProCarryNAustin]

Depends
More urban area .38 +p
More rural .357
Super rural .44mag or 10mm

 

[BabaBlueJay]

Depends
More urban area .38 +p
More rural .357
Super rural .44mag or 10mm

That's an excellent point. I live in an old harbor town on the coast where my neighborhood is extremely packed together. I spend the majority of my carry time on walks in this neighborhood or local stores. If you go even a mile inland to hike it's more rural and we have more black bear sightings in my county than the rest of my state combined (although I've never personally seen any). I'm thinking 38 +P most places and hard casts in 357 when hiking might be the ticket.

 

[ProCarryNAustin]

One of the great things 357 revolvers. You can get anything from plinking loads to minor sledge hammers.

 

[Jakerin]

My only .357 is my derringer and I run +Ps in it. +Ps have a lot of punch.

 

[chief38]

I never carried an L Frame on the street, even though I do own one. The only exception to carrying one was on a rare occasion and that was in the woods in bear country. For that purpose, and that purpose only, I did carry Buffalo Bore 357 magnums in it.

For street EDC (up until 5 years ago) I did carry a Model 60-7 and that was stoked with Buffalo Bore +P 38 Special 158 grain SWCHP-GC ammo. I did also carry Speer GDHP 135 grain +P 38 specials in the summer when less penetration was required. I always admired the 357 magnum however as a civilian and on populated streets I never felt comfortable carrying magnum loads, primarily because I was concerned that should I even need to use it, penetration would be too much and could possibly continue on past an intended target and injure an innocent bystander.

Now days, it's a Sig P365 stoked with Federal 9mm HST 124 grain which performs incredibly well - from everything I have personally tested, read and watched.

While I do have many medium and large frame Revolvers, other than in the woods, I was never willing to EDC one. Out of a 2" short barreled J frame revolver, the 38 spl's. mentioned above fit my needs. Thankfully I never needed to test it, but I did feel confident with the combo.

 

[stansdds]

I voted 38 Special, but for me, when I carry a revolver it is a S&W 640-1. I used to stoke it with 357 Magnums, but the recoil did make for slow follow up shots, so I carry it with Speer's Short Barrel 38 Special +P 135 grain Gold Dot.
If carrying a K-frame or larger, then I'd lean more towards carrying 357 Magnum loads. If you can get Speer's 357 Magnum Short Barrel 135 grain Gold Dot, it has a very good reputation for expansion and adequate penetration.

 

[BabaBlueJay]

I never carried an L Frame on the street, even though I do own one. The only exception to carrying one was on a rare occasion and that was in the woods in bear country. For that purpose, and that purpose only, I did carry Buffalo Bore 357 magnums in it.

For street EDC (up until 5 years ago) I did carry a Model 60-7 and that was stoked with Buffalo Bore +P 38 Special 158 grain SWCHP-GC ammo. I did also carry Speer GDHP 135 grain +P 38 specials in the summer when less penetration was required. I always admired the 357 magnum however as a civilian and on populated streets I never felt comfortable carrying magnum loads, primarily because I was concerned that should I even need to use it, penetration would be too much and could possibly continue on past an intended target and injure an innocent bystander.

Now days, it's a Sig P365 stoked with Federal 9mm HST 124 grain which performs incredibly well - from everything I have personally tested, read and watched.

While I do have many medium and large frame Revolvers, other than in the woods, I was never willing to EDC one. Out of a 2" short barreled J frame revolver, the 38 spl's. mentioned above fit my needs. Thankfully I never needed to test it, but I did feel confident with the combo.

Always enjoy your informative posts in the forums. I'm proud that we both have an affinity for Buffalo Bore. I'm assuming with 357 for bear country you were using their heavy outdoorsman hard cast bullets. I had a flat latch Chief I carried for a while, but it was not rated for +P and standard pressure 38 performance with hollow points is typically lackluster.

The whole reason I made this post is your second point is something I've thought a lot about as well. I really worry about collateral damage from 357 going through the intended target. Even with great expansion of Winchester Silvertips/Buffalo Bore/Gold Dots the power of 357 magnum could carry that round through the threat and into a bystander. 357 magnum is hands down my favorite handgun round, but it does have that liability attached, which is a real concern.

I had a P365 for a while and really enjoyed just how easy it was to carry. Mine was an early one with failure to lock back which scared me into selling it. I'll admit, the appeal of a small auto like the P365 or a J Frame revolver is real. There is no denying that it is much easier to EDC with a smaller, lighter gun.

 

[robertrwalsh]

Where I live and spend my time I am MUCH MORE likely to encounter a 2-legged threat or a modest size (dog) four legged threat than a bear. For these foes a well placed shot of reasonable power is much more important than hard-core power / penetration. Plus my arthritic hands do not enjoy full power blasting any more. No more rhino rollers for me except under very rare circumstances.

 

[Sgt. Buzzard]

My EDC is a 442 so .38 Silvertips. Reason being is many years ago I found that load grouped great in my stubble. Yes I know there are probably better short barrel loads available today. If I replace the 442 for a 340 PD I would do some ammo testing of modern .38 loads looking for controlled grouping. No 357's due to arthritis, I'm only looking to shave a couple of Oz in carry weight.

I do have a 3" DAO Kimber that has .38 Hornady Critical Defense in it. Again arthritis related. I want fast controlled second or third round shots. It's not a EDC due to weight and harder concealment. Excellent truck gun. I just can't shoot .357 or .45 ACP anymore. YMMV.

 

[Dio]

38 all the way for me. In both my J and N frame

 

[Marshal Tom]

I own several .357 revolvers but about the only ones I ever carry when out and about are J frames in the pocket. The negatives of carrying .357's in a J frame far outweigh the positives IMHO. I carry 135gr GD SB in such guns. I am on the west slope of Colorado at the base of the Grand Mesa and spend a lot of time up there. If carrying a revolver when up on the mesa, I do carry with .357's but usually in a larger frame. Most often these days, I am carrying a 9mm semi auto.

 

[CH4]

For carry J and K frames are usually stoked with 38 +P; L and N frames, 357 magnum.

 

[lrrifleman]

I primarily carry a P365 when outofstate, but when I do carry my 686 3", it is currently loaded with Hornaday Critical Defense.

 

[Well Armed]

For carry J and K are usually stoked with 38 +P; L and N frames, 357 magnum.

I agree with CH4. Plus I personally don't see the point in carrying a L or N frame 357 to only utilize 38 +P out of it.

 

[chief38]

Always enjoy your informative posts in the forums. I'm proud that we both have an affinity for Buffalo Bore. I'm assuming with 357 for bear country you were using their heavy outdoorsman hard cast bullets. I had a flat latch Chief I carried for a while, but it was not rated for +P and standard pressure 38 performance with hollow points is typically lackluster.

The whole reason I made this post is your second point is something I've thought a lot about as well. I really worry about collateral damage from 357 going through the intended target. Even with great expansion of Winchester Silvertips/Buffalo Bore/Gold Dots the power of 357 magnum could carry that round through the threat and into a bystander. 357 magnum is hands down my favorite handgun round, but it does have that liability attached, which is a real concern.

I had a P365 for a while and really enjoyed just how easy it was to carry. Mine was an early one with failure to lock back which scared me into selling it. I'll admit, the appeal of going back to a small auto like the P365 or a J Frame revolver is real. There is no denying that it is much easier to EDC with a smaller, lighter gun.

BabaBlueJay,

158 grain 357 magnum ammo out of a 2" bbl. is really not anymore practically effective than the Buffalo Bore HEAVY OUTDOORSMAN 38 Spl. +P loading. Again, I am referring to 158 grain projectiles out of a 2" bbl. Shooting 357 magnums out of a 2" J frame is also going to effect speed of follow up shots, lots of muzzle flash and blast and if you need to shoot single handed - hard to control.

Yes, the P365 had a few issues when it was first released. Sig came out with a revolutionary new design and when a company does that, there are usually a few issues that accompany it. I purposely waited to buy one until Sig ironed out all the kinks - thankfully they were very quick in doing so and not only did they repair and correct all the issues swiftly, they corrected the manufacturing issues so they would not reoccur. Sig's game changing 9mm P365 has personally been responsible for many other companies coming out with their versions of Micro pistols. That in turn has had a prolific effect in what armed citizens carry now days.

Thankfully, the P365's have all been corrected and are now as reliable as any other well made semi auto pistol - it's been that way for 4+ years now. I have 6,000+ rounds through mine with zero failures - except for one bad magazine which Sig replaced I have had 0 issues. I have been utterly happy with mine and could not fathom going back to a 5 shot revolver. Not in today's crime ridden world.

 

[Durango Slim]

You need to make sure you have the barrel length to achieve the necessary velocity for hollow point expansion. Otherwise it's a FMJ.

Also remember that a bear load needs to be different than a self defense load. A 200 pound black bear is a much tougher animal than a 200 pound man. Fur, thicker skin, denser muscles and bones.

A hollow point at .38 velocities will likely expend it's energy before hitting anything vital in a bear. You want penetration from a heavy flat-ish nosed bullet to break bones and crush tissue on it's way out the other side of the beast.

I have been experimenting with 148gr wadcutters in my 2" .38. At 930 fps, they are accurate and manageable. This combo has been used for decades as a quality back up load by police.

 

[Well Armed]

I carry a 686 and while I know that this combat magnum was designed for heavy use of the cartridge I am starting to wonder if this is prudent for carry. I currently use Winchester Silvertips and they perform great in terms of reliability, accuracy, expansion, and follow-up shots. As I approach the time of year where I buy bulk ammo, I have noticed that Gold Dots have finally become available in bulk online for great prices. I know that 38 is less powerful, however, I think the lower recoil, less penetration, and faster follow-ups could outweigh the lower velocity. I was just curious what others with revolvers chambered in 357 choose to carry between the two and why?

With Gold Dots, you're only getting 13.6" penetration and .44" expansion out of a 2" barrel, and only 13.3" penetration and .53" expansion out of a 4" barrel. You don't need to carry a large 35oz+ revolver for that little bid of diminishing returns. It's overkill IMHOZ. It's like carrying an all steel 35oz+ 1911 just to put 380acp in it.

Plus, I don't understand carrying need to switch between 38 and 357 depending on if you're in an urban or rural area like one member suggested. 38spc and 357mag self-defense ammo are all typically designed to be within FBI specifications. The difference will be 38spc will be at the lower end and 357 mag can be at the lower, middle, or upper end depending on the round. Now when we get into hot and heavy rounds designed for hunting and not EDC, then you may not want to EDC that in a urban, suburban, or busy area.

 

[chief38]

I am not here to try and sell anything to anybody. I am simply stating the ballistics of commonly carried bullets out of commonly carried guns.

A 124 grain standard velocity 9mm HST out of a Sig P365 3.1" bbl moving at 1100 fps generates about 333 foot pounds of energy. The same round in +P is 364 ft. lbs.

A 158 grain Buffalo Bore +P Heavy SWCHP moving at 1,000 fps from a 2" bbl generates about 350 foot pounds of energy. That's about the best 38 special I know of.

The difference in energy is not enough to practically matter, however the violent recoil out of a J frame & only 5 shot capacity is dismal against an 11 shot, 17.6 ounce (unloaded) 9mm that is slimmer, lighter, smaller and holds more than double the capacity. Recoil is mild and so follow up shots are easy and fast.

If you are truly intent on improving your EDC platform, this is something to seriously consider. I was a revolver guy my entire life (for EDC/CCW) but that changed about 4-5 years ago when the Sig P365 came on the market. If you objectively compare a Micro 9 (Sig, Hellcat, FN Reflex, etc) to a 5 shot J Frame, there is simply no contest - at least in my mind.

 

[Chuck Edwards]

For carry J and K are usually stoked with 38 +P; L and N frames, 357 magnum.

This is how I generally do it as well. I load my M49 and Colt Detective Special with wadcutters rather than +P because they're regulated for that bullet weight and expansion is iffy from snubbies with the R-P version of the FBI load I carry in most of my K frames. My only K frame .357 is a 4" M19-3, and it gets the FBI load.

I rarely carry my L and N frames anymore due to their weight.