MIM Parts

[67whaler]

It's ok. Firestorms and healthy debate are fun! I've accidentally started a few myself! How boring would life be if we all liked the same things in exactly the same way???? Yeah I don't want that either.

 

[WisconsinKen]

I would not argue that the after market machined parts are not better than the MIM parts in my 1911SC. Take for instance the ambi safety. Perfectly functional so far in my SC. However, it is not nearly as nice as the Wilson ambi I put on my Billboard. So, it really boils down to personal taste and the acceptable price point.

 

[Fastbolt]

FWIW ... (what you paid for it ) ... I've been using MIM 3rd gen parts since I was introduced in them toward the end of the 90's, and typically found them to exhibit better, tighter tolerances than the same forged or cast steel parts.

Also, in my '05 vintage SW1911SC 5", the only part that "failed" after several years was a plunger tube (staking let go), which isn't a MIM part.

I'm a long time 1911 owner/shooter (and went through the Colt Model O Pistol armorer class), so I'm somewhat fussy about the quality of the parts that go in my 1911's.

Now, just like when we're talking machined forged & cast parts, where the quality of forged and cast may run the gamut of quality being anywhere from not-so-good to great, the same might be said of MIM. Also, in addition to the quality of the MIM material, there's the quality of the MIM molds to consider.

That's why we were told (in a late 90's armorer class) that S&W wisely decided to select and own the MIM molds used to make their parts, even when they're made by an out-sourced "MIM house" vendor, so they can have control over the quality of the molds, themselves.

I won't name the gun company involved, but some years ago I remember hearing how one gun company once took bids for MIM parts for their branded pistols, and when they got bids for the work, decided to use a vendor that offered a less expensive bid.

 

[S&W Rover]

WOW! When I posted my question I was hoping for a couple of replies, but not to create a firestorm. I will admit, you guys having me rethinking the idea of replacing parts that may be just as good as their replacements. Being that I am as old as dirt, I probably have been influenced by MIM failures when they first came out. In any case, THANKS TO ALL!

I think MIM started out with a bad reputation, for sure. I remember when the Sig Forum was scandalized because someone found pictures of some Sig-Sauer parts in an advertisement on a web page from an Indian metal company. I don't know if that Indian company really proved to be the source of those Sig parts, but they actually have a great reputation as a world-class producer of all sorts of MIM items.

But I think S&W (and Sig) have the MIM process down pretty good now. I have never had a part from a S&W (or a Sig!) gun break, through many thousands of rounds. On top of that, I would venture that for most parts for most guns, there really is only one source, and it often involves MIM.

 

[ladder13]

I think MIM started out with a bad reputation, for sure. I remember when the Sig Forum was scandalized because someone found pictures of some Sig-Sauer parts in an advertisement on a web page from an Indian metal company. I don't know if that Indian company really proved to be the source of those Sig parts........................

Could be the source for the many years of Sig substandard product.

 

[JHB51]

In the early 70s I worked as a tool maker for a Swiss stamping shop. We built the tooling and ran production for Charter arms hammers and triggers. Out sourcing parts around the world is nothing new.

 

[reddog81]

I'm all for customizing and having options, but be aware that any of the parts you replace are just as likely to need fitting as they are to be drop-in. You can't just replace the hammer, sear, slide stop and thumb safety and expect the gun to function exactly like it did before. Make sure to keep the factory parts if replace anything because in the long run those parts are probably the best option.

If it makes you feel any better some Colt's come with a plastic mainspring housing.

 

[SOTVEN]

Gun manufacturers like Springfield & Smith&Wesson are pretty stupid to provide lifetime warrantys on guns with parts that will fail or do they know they won't fail like some think they will.

HMMMM... I DO NOT KNOW ABOUT SPRINGFIELD FRIEND, BUT S&W SEEMS TO HAVE FORGOTTEN ABOUT WARRANTIES FOR THE 3RD GEMS ATLEAST. SO, AS MUCH AS I WOULD LIKE TO BELIEVE THAT MIM IS A BETTER OR EQUAL SOLUTION, I AM MORE CONVINCED THAT IT IS A MORE COST EFFECTIVE SOLUTION. AGAIN, COMPANIES ARE THERE TO MAKE A DOLLAR, AND I WILL NOT BE THE ONE TO JUDGE THEM. ITS A MARKET DRIVEN WORLD, AND WHAT THE MAJORITY OF THE MARKET WANTS, WE ALL END UP GETTING.

"THIS KEY SAY THE PADRE DROVE A MERCEDES. OR AT LEAST THATS WHAT THEY ARE PASSING OFF AS A MERCEDES THESE DAYS. MODERN CARS, THEY ALL LOOK LIKE ELECTRIC SHAVERS" (MARV, SIN CITY)

 

[18DAI]

MIM is a cost cutting measure that profits the manufacturer. Nothing more. And when it breaks it looks exactly like cheap pot metal.

When I see Wilson Combat or Les Baer putting it in their guns then perhaps I will reconsider. But I don't consider or value, the opinions of fanboys.

I recall that the absence of MIM parts was a selling point in S&W Performance Center ads. Back before the "Performance Center" was just another assembly line in the main factory. YMMV. Regards 18DAI

 

[Arik]

Someone has to remind my revolver that only MIM hammers are supposed to break!

So far my experience is MIM parts broken 0. None MIM broken 1

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[BruceM]

MIM is a cost cutting measure that profits the manufacturer. Nothing more. And when it breaks it looks exactly like cheap pot metal.

The part itself is actually more expensive on a piece by piece basis. The savings are in diminished hand fitting. It makes zero sense to utilize a more expensive part which still requires extensive hand fitting and is a little more difficult to work with.

I recall that the absence of MIM parts was a selling point in S&W Performance Center ads. Back before the "Performance Center" was just another assembly line in the main factory.

When I see Wilson Combat or Les Baer putting it in their guns then perhaps I will reconsider. But I don't consider or value, the opinions of fanboys.

I recall no such reference by anybody other than Dan Wesson. Wilson Combat made a line of MIM components and used same in some guns for a few years and then discontinued them. I suspect that they were not selling well in their market slot and a number of their more enlightened prospective customers complained.

The folks who occupy that market share your misinformation and these builders all hand fit oversized parts to fit on a one on one basis. This is the exact opposite of the manufacturing goals which call for the use of MIM parts. In essence, it's all about what the builder is used to and comfortable with plus what the prospective buyer expects at those guns' price point ie: extensive hand fitting of forged and barstock parts.

It should be noted that Smith & Wesson professional shooters such as Jerry Miculek and Judy Golob use guns with MIM parts in competition.

As far as your comments concerning "fanboys", the conventional wisdom regarding those who utter said comments is that ignorance is bliss!

Bruce

 

[ladder13]

FWIW ... (what you paid for it ) ... I've been using MIM 3rd gen parts since I was introduced in them toward the end of the 90's, and typically found them to exhibit better, tighter tolerances than the same forged or cast steel parts.

Also, in my '05 vintage SW1911SC 5", the only part that "failed" after several years was a plunger tube (staking let go), which isn't a MIM part.

I'm a long time 1911 owner/shooter (and went through the Colt Model O Pistol armorer class), so I'm somewhat fussy about the quality of the parts that go in my 1911's.

Now, just like when we're talking machined forged & cast parts, where the quality of forged and cast may run the gamut of quality being anywhere from not-so-good to great, the same might be said of MIM. Also, in addition to the quality of the MIM material, there's the quality of the MIM molds to consider.

That's why we were told (in a late 90's armorer class) that S&W wisely decided to select and own the MIM molds used to make their parts, even when they're made by an out-sourced "MIM house" vendor, so they can have control over the quality of the molds, themselves.

I won't name the gun company involved, but some years ago I remember hearing how one gun company once took bids for MIM parts for their branded pistols, and when they got bids for the work, decided to use a vendor that offered a less expensive bid.

Nuff said about this from someone who knows, and has no axe to grind.

 

[Tom S.]

When fire was invented, it was "I'll be damned if I'll give up raw meat.".
When huts came out, it was "I'll be damned if I'll give up my cave.".
When horseless carriages came out, it was "I'll be damned if I'll give up my horse.".
When electric lights came out, it was "I'll be damned if I'll give up my gas lights.".
When washing machines came out, it was "I'll be damned if I'll give up my rocks.".
When vacuum machines came out, it was "I'll be damned if I'll give up my broom.".
When stainless steel came out, it was "I'll be damned if I'll give up my chrome moly.".
When bottled beer came out, it was "I'll be damned if I'll give up my draft.".
When canned beer came out, it was "I'll be damned if I'll give up my bottled beer.".

I could go on all day, but I won't as you get the idea.

Some just can't live with progress.

 

[BruceM]

When fire was invented, it was "I'll be damned if I'll give up raw meat.".
When huts came out, it was "I'll be damned if I'll give up my cave.".
When horseless carriages came out, it was "I'll be damned if I'll give up my horse.".
When electric lights came out, it was "I'll be damned if I'll give up my gas lights.".
When washing machines came out, it was "I'll be damned if I'll give up my rocks.".
When vacuum machines came out, it was "I'll be damned if I'll give up my broom.".
When stainless steel came out, it was "I'll be damned if I'll give up my chrome moly.".
When bottled beer came out, it was "I'll be damned if I'll give up my draft.".
When canned beer came out, it was "I'll be damned if I'll give up my bottled beer.".

Roger that!!

The flush toilet, investment casting and unibody will NEVER work and we never landed on the moon in 1969.

Bruce