Mod 500, two separate issues (title edited)

[__steve__]

Just got my Model 500 back from S&W for a repaired yoke. The excessive cylinder end play and slop is now almost nonexistent, cylinder gap went from 0.010 to 0.009” (not sure how but it was narrowed), and the action is a lot tighter and smoother than before. However a new problem manifested during this repair.

During my first session with repaired 500 (2 days after FedX delivered it back) I fired various commercial varieties of about a total of 20 rounds (Armscor 300, Hornady 500, and MagTech 325), and one resulted with a light primer strike. The pin barely hit the primer. I thought the light primer hit was probably from the gun being so cruddy since it still had some excess lubrication used to preserve the firearm during transport for repair back in October, plus a good deal of residue from S&W test firing (a lot more than 5). But I wanted to fire it first and clean after.
Here is the lite primer dud:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=489175&stc=1&d=1609437974

So I clean it real good and took it to the range thinking it should be good. I brought along my new chronograph to get a baseline for this treasured 3.5” magnum using 5 types of commercial loads (MagTech 325, Hornady 300, Hornady 500, Precision 350, Federal 275, and the soft hitting Armcor) to shoot in DA. Did 5 successful velocity readings of MagTech, then the first Hornady 300 FTX shot was a lite-primer dud. I thought maybe it was my technique - I was staging the DA or something, so I followed through this time, just plinking targets as my chronographical session was aborted. I loaded the cyl some factory 350gr and the 2nd one went “clack”, again I thought was a lite primer but now t this time. It was squibbed. I tried to clear the cylinder but it wouldn’t open - a 350 gr jacketed bullet was about half way in the barrel.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=489182&stc=1&d=1609439457

So now I have a squib cylinder jam with 3 live ones on board. During “hot” portions of range time I successfullytapped it back down:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=489177&stc=1&d=1609439457

*Turns out the squib was unrelated to the firing pin issue* edited

I believe my firing pin/spring assembly is malfunctioning. Intermittently jamming or sticking. Happened upon receiving this thing back from S&W. I can tell the pin feels funky (it randomly locks up and sticks). not looking forward to sending it back to S&W again for another 2.5 months to be returned and fixed for one thing, and potentially fail for another.

Comment to clarify things (edit) the firing pin issue was likely because I had way too much oil on gun from shipping, however the pin spring was corroded too. Should have taken apart and removed the residue. The reason I used a little oil for packaging was because when I bought this gun it was highly corroded. Mostly around the side panel to frame contact surfaces, and especially the screws and threads.

 

[gnystrom]

Posts like this drive me nuts. I see way too many of them. I have lost faith in S&W in the manner they have apparently chosen to operate over the last few years. As an RSO I have seen all too many S&W revolvers go back for a second or third trip to be repaired.
My number of S&W revolvers has shrunk down to four and those four have so far been tried and proven to be 100% reliable.
If any of them do ever give me trouble it will be off to a reputable gunsmith for repair.

 

[dogdoc]

Take the firing pin out and clean the recess and spring . Simple enough. Hell if I would send it back for that. Also easy to replace firing pin and spring with one from apex of needed. Or you can send it back and wait months.

 

[vipermd]

I would have S&W make it right. Be Safe,

 

[ruggyh]

loaded the cyl some factory MT 325’s and the 2nd one, again, was a lite primer. I tried to clear the cylinder of the uxo (as I had done since the first occurrence), but this time the cylinder wouldn’t open - the 325 jacketed bullet was about half way in the barrel!.... So now I have a squib cylinder jam with 3 live ones on board. During “hot” portions of range time I successfully dowel tapped it back down:

Squibs are not cause by light primmer strikes, the cartridge didn't have any powder.

This is a ammunition issue.

Had the bullet made it completed into the barrel and you fired another round your gun would be in pieces.

Your first photo does show a light primer strike, and if you believe the firing pin is sticking I would clean the gun and retest.

If you believe you have a bad firing pin call S&W and ask them to send you a new one rather than sending it back - very easy to replace. I would also ask for a spring in case the spring has collapsed or broken (which happens on rare occasion).

 

[kreuzlover]

First, tighten up the strain screw. I started getting fail to fire in my .500 and the cause was the strain screw had backed out, due to lots of recoil. After I tightened it up, no more misfires. I also put some blue Loc-tite on it, also. Just remember to run the screw all the way in.

 

[steelslaver]

I agree that a squib was an ammo problem and not a gun problem.

Never hear of a light strike that fired the primer and did not ignite the powder. Either bad primer, bad powder, no powder. If that ithe powder from the squib in the filter it is obviously clumped up from some kind of contaminate.

 

[__steve__]

Take the firing pin out and clean the recess and spring . Simple enough. Hell if I would send it back for that. Also easy to replace firing pin and spring with one from apex of needed. Or you can send it back and wait months.

How do I remove the retainer that holds the pin/spring assembly?
does this void warranty?
Where is the best place to order S&W parts?

 

[__steve__]

I agree that a squib was an ammo problem and not a gun problem.

Never hear of a light strike that fired the primer and did not ignite the powder. Either bad primer, bad powder, no powder. If that ithe powder from the squib in the filter it is obviously clumped up from some kind of contaminate.

These were all factory purchased ammo (Hndy, MagTech, AC) most from same box that worked fine prior. I can’t see them going bad just from sitting while gun was being repaired.Plus The picture shows the pin barely hitting the primer
Something must have gotten into the pin bore jamming the pin up.

 

[ruggyh]

How do I remove the retainer that holds the pin/spring assembly?
does this void warranty?
Where is the best place to order S&W parts?

Remove the side cover. The firing pin retainer pin is held in place by the side cover, remove the retaining pin with a pair of tweezers or needle nose pliers the firing pin will now be able to be removed. The spring is behind the firing pin.

if your not modifying the gun there will not be any warranty issues in the future

 

[dogdoc]

I believe the pin just slides out. I have replaced several but it has been a minute . It should be evident once you get the side plate off. Do not pry it off! Use a wood handle to tP the grip frame until the side plate comes off( after all screws removed). You might want to order a kuhnhausen book on Smith revolvers . They are not very complicated of you are mechanical and have the proper screwdrivers. Brownells sells parts. Apex makes replacement firing pins and springs.

 

[__steve__]

First, tighten up the strain screw. I started getting fail to fire in my .500 and the cause was the strain screw had backed out, due to lots of recoil. After I tightened it up, no more misfires. I also put some blue Loc-tite on it, also. Just remember to run the screw all the way in.

Yes, after first lite- primer hit I cleaned it thoroughly. Tension screw and 4 panel screws torqued with loctite

 

[ruggyh]

These were all factory purchased ammo (Hndy, MagTech, AC) most from same box that worked fine prior. I can’t see them going bad just from sitting while gun was being repaired.Plus The picture shows the pin barely hitting the primer
Something must have gotten into the pin bore jamming the pin up.

The squib is not a gun problem - if the primer goes off so should the powder.

Consult with the manufacture of the ammo.

 

[__steve__]

I believe the pin just slides out. I have replaced several but it has been a minute . It should be evident once you get the side plate off. Do not pry it off! Use a wood handle to tP the grip frame until the side plate comes off( after all screws removed). You might want to order a kuhnhausen book on Smith revolvers . They are not very complicated of you are mechanical and have the proper screwdrivers. Brownells sells parts. Apex makes replacement firing pins and springs.

I use a 12” rubber piece of 3/4” quarter round on the rear grip strap. No prying here sir

I will look into removing pin tonight (below IMg )and see, thanks!

 

[__steve__]

The squib is not a gun problem - if the primer goes off so should the powder.

Consult with the manufacture of the ammo.

I should have posted links live. See above

 

[ruggyh]

I should have posted links live. See above

Yes this is a light primmer strike as I have already stated

Your squib and lite primer strike are 2 separate issues.

 

[__steve__]

Yes this is a light primmer strike as I have already stated

Your squib and lite primer strike are 2 separate issues.

Looks like you are right. Just noticed that is starline brass and not the other. And the primer is fully hit. Looks like the primer popped out of socket a little too

 

[ruggyh]

Looks like you are right. Just noticed that is starline brass and not the other. And the primer is fully hit. Looks like the primer popped out of socket a little too

The primer backing out is an indication that there was insufficient pressure to push the case back and reseat the primer.

Remember for action the is an equal and opposite reaction

Upon detonation the primer is is pushed out of it pocket as the bullet is pushed forward. The powder ignites creating moving the bullet forward and the case is pushed backward resetting the primmer.

 

[steelslaver]

I don't care if it was factory ammo. Either bad from factory or some kind of solvent or penetrating oil got to the powder.

If the primer went bang enough to push the bullet out of the case it should have ignited the powder,

You don't need a piece of round rubber to remove the side plate. Remove the screws with a hollow ground screw driver that fits the screw slots. Hold the gun cupped in your hand with the side plate down and strike the off side with something like a large plastic screw driver handle,a wood hammer handle and the side plate will jar away from the frame so you can lift it off. Once the side plate is off the pin that holds the firing pin in frame will fall out, if not hold the gun in a manner similar to how you held it to get side plate off and give it another rap, opposite the pin. It maybe held in by to much oil in a spot that needs none.

I do believe you may have a problem with your firing pin of your strain screw being loose. But before you tear the gun apart, take the grips off and spray the firing pin from front with cylinder open and from rear with hammer cocked with brake cleaner . As a matter of fact spray it in every opening in the frame as you work the action.

But then learning to take apart a SS&W action and put it back together is something every S&W owner should learn how to do. Just taking the side plate off and putting a tiny drop of oil on each stud, pivot and the rebound slide is better than spraying some miracle do all magic gun stuff in the action.

A bunch of oil is never a good thing in or on a revolver and a stainless steel gun didn't need it to preserve it for shipment. It just needs to be dry and clean. If a gun feels oily, it is to oily.

BTW, taking it completely down with every moving part out of it does nothing to the warranty unless you break or bend something doing it or press out a stud or something like that.

 

[ken158]

Yes, after first lite- primer hit I cleaned it thoroughly. Tension screw and 4 panel screws torqued with loctite

Guess its too late now but never loctite your sideplate...