Model 10-5 and +P. ???
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OFT II
US Veteran
The 10-5 should be just fine with +P loads.
btw, imo the 2 inch K-frame is a supurb defense and range gun...the K-frame trigger pull and beafier size is far superior to any J-frame (it's just not a pocket gun, unless you wear overalls and weight over 300 pounds)...as a plus, the 2 inch K-frame shoots like a 4 inch K-frame if your marksmanship fundamentals are solid...
I own a 2 inch Model 10, 12 & 15...love 'em all!
I own a 2 inch Model 10, 12 & 15...love 'em all!
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Srigs
Member
I shoot it in my 2" Model 10-5.
Texas Star
US Veteran
I think that Dr. Pig may be in error about there being no difference in Model-numbered guns and un-numbered guns.
In his, "Handgunner's Guide" printed about 1960, the late Chic Gaylord said that a S&W rep told him that the heavy-barrelled M-10 was made with new, improved steel and was stronger than previous guns. I presume that the reguar M-10 was by then being made with the improved steel and heat-treatments.
The USAF wore out their S&W .38's after going to Plus P ammo, and were pleading for 9mm autos, leading to the adoption of the Beretta M-9 in 1985. Most of their M-15's had been rebuilt several times.
I think that most guns made after Dr. Pig's 1930 date will take some Plus P use, and gun writer Mike Venturino has fired quite a bit in a postwar M&P made in the 1940's. But Pus P probably does wear guns sooner. Cylinder endshake and timing issues will surface sooner than if most use is with standard velocity ammo. And you don't need Plus P all of the time. Paper targets, tin cans, and most snakes will never know the difference. I do load Plus P for defense and where I might have only a .38 at hand when dangerous animals may be a threat. That would include where pythons or big boas or anacondas were a factor. Apart from use outside the USA, Burmese pythons are now well established in some parts of Florida. And I'd sure want Plus P's in alligator country.
T-Star
In his, "Handgunner's Guide" printed about 1960, the late Chic Gaylord said that a S&W rep told him that the heavy-barrelled M-10 was made with new, improved steel and was stronger than previous guns. I presume that the reguar M-10 was by then being made with the improved steel and heat-treatments.
The USAF wore out their S&W .38's after going to Plus P ammo, and were pleading for 9mm autos, leading to the adoption of the Beretta M-9 in 1985. Most of their M-15's had been rebuilt several times.
I think that most guns made after Dr. Pig's 1930 date will take some Plus P use, and gun writer Mike Venturino has fired quite a bit in a postwar M&P made in the 1940's. But Pus P probably does wear guns sooner. Cylinder endshake and timing issues will surface sooner than if most use is with standard velocity ammo. And you don't need Plus P all of the time. Paper targets, tin cans, and most snakes will never know the difference. I do load Plus P for defense and where I might have only a .38 at hand when dangerous animals may be a threat. That would include where pythons or big boas or anacondas were a factor. Apart from use outside the USA, Burmese pythons are now well established in some parts of Florida. And I'd sure want Plus P's in alligator country.
T-Star
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Should pick her up Monday...
I'm torn between a splendid Ruger Speed Six (?) and the Model 10-5 snubbie. Both at the same price.
I prefer the Model 10 and have really started enjoying the fixed sights and accuracy I've been getting from my 4 inch Model 581
I'm torn between a splendid Ruger Speed Six (?) and the Model 10-5 snubbie. Both at the same price.
I prefer the Model 10 and have really started enjoying the fixed sights and accuracy I've been getting from my 4 inch Model 581
Speed sixes have fixed sights, and are built like a tank...is it in .357? If so, go for that one...if not, try them both (dry fire each) and see which points more naturally, seems to have less wear, fits your hand better, etc....kinda like choosing a puppy...see which ones comes to you!
Art Doc
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I am not aware of Mr. Gaylord's expertise on S&W manufacturing. I do not believe the HB Model 10s are made any differently than the standard barrel models as far as materials are concerned.
Again, any concern regarding +P ammo is based on the FALSE assumption that it is a hot load. It is loaded to 18,000 PSI. This is not a hot load.
T Star, you have mentioned the AF experience many times. I do not know exactly what the story is with the AF revolvers but I don't see how +P ammo, at 18,000 PSI, had any serious effect on their guns. Maybe they simply shot them so much they wore out?
My experience, research and testing convinces me that +P is a relatively weak load. It is kept 3,000 PSI below maximum. I have shot it (and higher pressure loads) in old K frames and old J frames with zero effect.
I do not believe in the Boogie Man, the Tooth Fairy, or accept +P as a powerful load that will harm a well made revolver. Mythology is not my thing.
Again, any concern regarding +P ammo is based on the FALSE assumption that it is a hot load. It is loaded to 18,000 PSI. This is not a hot load.
T Star, you have mentioned the AF experience many times. I do not know exactly what the story is with the AF revolvers but I don't see how +P ammo, at 18,000 PSI, had any serious effect on their guns. Maybe they simply shot them so much they wore out?
My experience, research and testing convinces me that +P is a relatively weak load. It is kept 3,000 PSI below maximum. I have shot it (and higher pressure loads) in old K frames and old J frames with zero effect.
I do not believe in the Boogie Man, the Tooth Fairy, or accept +P as a powerful load that will harm a well made revolver. Mythology is not my thing.
Doc B
Member
A model 10 Smith is the ultimate utility revolver. They are smooth,solid and durable. A K frame six shot .38 is far superior to a 5 shot J frame in my opinion, although there are others that might disagree. The model ten will take all you can dish out too. Back some years ago a custom gun builder was building backup police pistols from them. He was putting .357 cylinders in them, and chopping them down to the smallest thinnest proportions. Combat Handguns ran a whole story on them and could find no problems with the pistols firing hot .357s through them.
M2MikeGolf
US Veteran
I think Saxon knows what he's talking about, Texas. I would have to see some documentation about this Air Force story as I simply don't believe it. The Air Force wears out a lot of things; small arms is not one of them. The US Army had a lot of those old Model 10s in the 1980s too, issued mostly to aviators. Neither branchs experiences with those revolvers had much to do with the adoption of the M9, however the caliber, standardization and politics did. Those revolvers for both services were usually poorly maintained and not fired nearly as much as any police department of the day. Non-standard ammunition, like +P, was and is a big no-no, so I don't know what the Air Force would have been up to back then, but it wouldn't have been issue stuff, so pretty unlikely to have been wearing out weapons. Poor maintenance and improper use does more damage to military weapons than anything I ever saw in my twenty four years as an Infantryman and I would be willing to bet that what was really causing rebuilds, more often than not. When I was a young soldier, we still had pre-WWII M2 .50 cals and M1911A1 .45s in service, and they worked well as long as they were maintained and operated correctly. I believe the Model 10 has withstood the test of time and Saxon is putting out good information. Remember, the Model 10 is even capable of .357 level pressures (maybe not all the time) and that's a long way off from "+P" stuff.
roaddog28
Member
This +P issue will never die I guess. I have a M&P 38 4 inch with a tapered barrel. It was made in 1954. I shoot the so called +P ammo as well as lead round nose. The revolver still locks up tight with no end shake. +P ammo is all hype by ammo makers. S&W does not help the situation any by there disclaimer about only shoot +P in model number K frames. As long as the revolver is made after the 1930s a person can shoot +P ammo. The heat treating and development in metal that made the revolver stronger. Saxon can correct me on the exact year but I believe any revolver made after 1930 is ok. Except for the Buffalo +P LSWCHP the rest of the +P is what standard pressure used to be. There is enough information on the internet to confirm this.
Howard
Howard
m1gunner
US Veteran
The Air Force never issued +P ammo for their 6 shooters. They did, however, mod some M15s to also use 9mm ammo. 9mm is loaded way over 38 +P as far as pressure.
The reason for the mod was to see if the m15 could be inexpensively converted to 9mm if the need arose. It was a success, but wasn't needed service wide as the M9s rolled out shortly thereafter.
The standard 38sp ball load was no powerhouse. It wasn't unheard of to stick bullets in the bore.
The reason for the mod was to see if the m15 could be inexpensively converted to 9mm if the need arose. It was a success, but wasn't needed service wide as the M9s rolled out shortly thereafter.
The standard 38sp ball load was no powerhouse. It wasn't unheard of to stick bullets in the bore.
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