Model 12 questions

[45NUTT]

Is the alloy frame just a bad idea? How often do they crack? I'm looking at some snubs and can't remember all the ins & outs.

Please cast your pearls of wisdom in my general direction.

 

[sheepdawg]

Alloy a bad idea for a frame? Ever hear of a Colt Cobra frame cracking? I just avoid +P.

 

[stansdds]

Revolvers with aluminum and scandium frames and/or cylinders truly are meant to be carried a lot and shot a little. They are not as strong as steel or stainless steel. If you plan on shooting one a lot, my suggestion is to also look for a comparable model that has a steel or stainless steel frame and cylinder. That's my opinion, take it for what it is worth.

 

[Alk8944]

You may want to read this linked post I made exactly one year ago today: https://smith-wessonforum.com/threads/model-12-questions.726678/#post-142049024

Model 12s do not crack nearly as often as the prolific internet posts would make it sound like. Most are just repeating what they have read or heard and have never seen or owned a M-12 with a cracked frame! You the old saw of "If it is on the internet it has to be true". I have looked at hundreds of them over the past 50 or so years and I have never seen one with a cracked frame! Currently I own four of them and have owned others. I would be careful to look at the bottom of the frame lunette of any I am interested in, but would not hesitate a minute to buy one that had a sound frame.

 

[sjmjax]

Stansdds has good advice.

I carry a model 38. But, heavy range practice is with a model 49.

I have an early model 12 with the narrow frame. Interesting potential for carry. But it's primarily just a collector piece to me.

 

[old bear]

Buy the gun, if by some chance the frame cracks, throw it out and consider getting a new one.

 

[Bullet Bob]

Before the Earth completely cooled (1960's) Maj. George Nonte fired 5,000 rounds through a model 12 with no problems.

 

[Outpost75]

Frame cracks on the Model 12 occur rarely when barrels are over-clocked during factory assembly. They are not caused by firing +P ammo. These days you are more likely to find a barrel not drawn up, which is an off-shooter because the front sight is not top dead center. This is done purposefully to avoid over-torquing. Windage on a light frame is not corrected by turning the barrel, but by dressing the side of the front sight to reduce width slightly on the side where you wish the POI to move. A 0.010 mill cut on a 2-inch barrel moves POI about 3 inches at 25 yards.

Firing +P in excessive amounts increases wear and causes the revolver to develop end shake. Best is to limit +P for duty carry only and to use standard pressure loads for training and practice. Back in the day the lighter alloy frame gun was carried off-duty and for backup and a steel frame Model 10 was the primary.

Firing 100-200 rounds or so of +P spread over the entire service life of the gun is a non issue. This presumes keeping a shooting log of type and number of rounds fired, armorer inspection during annual requals and making adjustments if needed.

DO avoid the +P+ Treasury loads.

 

[Zeke38]

Outpost knows what he is talking about. Worked in gun industry for years.

 

[toroflow1]

One thing I do know is that model 12s have horrible resale value!

 

[sheepdawg]

One thing I do know is that model 12s have horrible resale value!

The 2" 12s bring pretty much what 2" model10s bring, maybe a bit more looking at BrokeGunner.

 

[meistermash]

That a new way of saying Gun Porker?
My interest in this thread is I own a 4"

 

[Outpost75]

One thing I do know is that model 12s have horrible resale value!

That has not been my experience. They remain highly desirable and command top dollar among knowledgeable users. The M12 provides a lighter weight, full sized gun which handles better and is more accurate than a J-frame. It carries SIX shots, not five. I have two, both a 4-inch square butt and a 2-inch round butt. Expanded bullets below are Speer 135 Gold Dot Short Barrel.

 

[RebCop]

I've seen a few of these with cracked frames like some of the scandium guns.

 

[Outpost75]

I've seen a few of these with cracked frames like some of the scandium guns.

Read my post #8

 

[chief38]

While I have never owned one, the M12's was discontinued by the US Air Force due to many cracks in the frames. Unless you are a serious collector and want one just have as part of the collection, I'd pass on a M12 as a shooter and get a M10 instead. That's the same gun but in steel. BTW, the M12 wears slightly smaller and thinner grips than all other K's. So if you think you can easily replace them - good luck with that.

 

[Retired W4]

This "pre" model 12 (lower right) has been retired by me. Great little gun though. No cracking.

 

[Alk8944]

While I have never owned one, the M12's was discontinued by the US Air Force due to many cracks in the frames. the M12 wears slightly smaller and thinner grips than all other K's. So if you think you can easily replace them - good luck with that.

This is not accurate! While identical to the early S&W M&P Airweight model The Air Force guns were designated Model 13 as the military designation. The Air Force retired their Model 13 Airweight revolvers due to cracking of the cylinders. not the frames. They chose to scrap most of them rather than have S&W fit new steel cylinders. I believe much of the hype about cracked frames began with others that mis-understood the issue the Air Force had with with cracked cylinders, just as you have!

So far as Stocks for the later Model 12 through Model 12-3 is concerned, it is easy to fit standard K-frame magna stocks simply by sanding .040" off the backs of each side. The M-12 stocks are not smaller, just thinner because the main portion of the frame is .080" thinner than the steel K-frames, resulting in a large gap under the "horn" of the stocks when used on a Model 12-3 and earlier. The Model 12-4 frame is dimensionally identical to the steel Model 10 and used the same stocks.

 

[Engine49guy]

I have two model twelves ,
a dash 2 SB flat latch snub thats like new and a high mileage dash three that has been in my carry rotation since I bought it used 30 years ago, it was a SB but has been Rb converted for better concealment, the story was it was a former LEO gun and definately was back to the factory as evidenced by its serial being stamped into the cylinder face .
The previous owner added the red ramp.
An interesting side note, about the model twelve is that it is the only sw k frame that briefly had the flat latch (as found on j frames during the same time period).
Ps
Two other model twelve grip options are fitting a set of pre war service stocks or post war reproductions,
Or if you can find a set of the old uncle mike's two piece rubber over mold grips they fit very well as evidence below on the 12-3.

 

[xtrtsqrt11]

I have had my M12-2, 2" round butt for a few years now. It is not a heavy use gun, and when I do take it out to shoot I mostly use standard pressure ammo but I'm not afraid to put a few rounds of +p through it. It is a great shooting and light weight revolver. I would LOVE for S&W to bring it back.

The biggest most legitimate qualifier that has been mentioned IMO is the reality of the replacement grips issue. Mine had standard K frame grips with the gap at the top of the grips. I am eagerly awaiting Hamre grips to bring out their Spegal authorized boot grips that Ryan has informed me will include the narrow frame models through -3s. I saw a Primary and Secondary podcast that he attended on you tube that also included two people on the panel that had preproduction grips on their M12's, one of which was identified specifically as a -2!
I have been on Spegal's revolver list for about 5 years and I am trying to patiently wait....