Model 13-2 FBI and LE questions

[Retired W4]

Love those fixed-sight magnums, especially the 3" RB types.

 

[sigp220.45]

One more thing before this thread slips away - until 1993 Agents could buy their issued guns at retirement. The Bu had a special deal with GSA that let a guy pay a nominal amount ($120 for a Model 10 if I remember right) upon his retirement. I know there is a member here with 2 Model 13s that came from retired Agents.

I vividly remember the day the notice came out that this practice was to be stopped immediately. There was no “grandfathering in” clause - it was just over. The grumbling was epic. Some guys said they would just say they lost it, until word came back that an Agent tried it and was fried crispy by OPR.

I had already given back my 226 and was carrying my personally owned 220, so it didn’t affect me. There were some seriously unhappy dinosaurs stomping around the office, though.

So, there are some Bureau issued revolvers floating around. No way to tell without a letter.

 

[Benjamin9]

Unlikely that yours is a FBI issue as the government began destroying weapons instead of trading them in under anti-gun Attorney General Janet Reno and her anti-gun boss, President Clinton. The Model 13 shipped with PC Magna stocks. Holsters would have been up to each officer, if individually purchased, or up to each agency, if purchased by the agency. The FBI used the Bucheimer Concealer holster and the Bucheimer 2x2x2 spare ammo pouch.

How did the PC magna stocks differ from standard round butt magnas at the time? Are those the stocks you are referring to in the picture? Thanks.

 

[31FordA]

As far as old FBI revolvers go the one I would like to get is the 2.5” Model 10. I am still kicking myself for missing out on three ex MSP 2.5” Model 10’s at the Oaks gun show years ago. I know I won’t make that mistake again, but unfortunately I doubt I’ll have that opportunity again. Regardless, I always look carefully at the shows to see if I can find another.

I’ve got a like new in box 1988 vintage Model 13 3” that I bought used 25 years ago for $300. A bargain now, but a weeks pay when I bought it.

 

[Model 15-4ever]

FBI issued .38 Special ammo in 1986 was Winchester 158 grain SWCHP +P. In .357 Magnum it was Winchester 145 gr Silvertips. My Model 13 was issued to me with factory wood grips and a Pachmayr grip adapter. As mentioned earlier, the issued holster was a Bucheimer Concealer. Also issued was a Bucheimer 2x2x2 ammo pouch and a Safariland speed loader with Safariland belt pouch.

I also went through in 1986 and had the same issue equipment. Federal and Remington 158 SWCHP +P was available in the ensuing years... depended on who won the contract.

That same year, there was some litigation regarding female agents qualifying with issue revolver. The Bureau started issuing the Model 13-2 with the Pachmayr Professional Compact grip - exposed backstrap - to female agents with small hands. Everyone else had the stock service panels and the Pachmayr grip adapter as issue.

General revolver issue at the Academy ended in 1990 with the advent of the S&W 1076 and 1086 (the latter for little-handed female agents).

 

[BC38]

A 3" M13 is still on my grail-gun list.
It would be the perfect "salt & pepper" compliment to my 3" M65.

 

[shawn mccarver]

How did the PC magna stocks differ from standard round butt magnas at the time? Are those the stocks you are referring to in the picture? Thanks.

PC (plain clothes) Magnas had the bottom edges of the grips rounded instead of being square. The purpose was to help avoid the grip "printing" when concealed. Yes, the grips on my Model 13 are PC Magnas.

Compare the bottom edges in the photos. PC Magnas (right) are rounded and Standard Magnas (left) are not.

 

[dnater]

Jimmy, it sat in an Agent's top desk drawer. Most Agent's were Lawyers and Accountants, not exactly street cops like us. Sarge

Correct. Although I was both an accountant and street cop before my short time in the Bureau. Lots of guys carried personal weapons in lieu of the issued gun. I carried my personal Model 66 3", so my Model 13 sat in the desk drawer. We were also encouraged to not carry in the office, so more desk drawer time for those carrying the issue gun. Being a former street cop, I ignored that suggestion.

 

[Model 15-4ever]

Jimmy, it sat in an Agent's top desk drawer. Most Agent's were Lawyers and Accountants, not exactly street cops like us. Sarge

Obviously you know little about the FBI.

For starters, most agents were neither then, nor now, lawyers and accountants. This was a J. Edgar Hoover-inspired public-relations mythology. Less than 20% of the Agent population is/was lawyers or accountants. The majority were former LE or military who sought a better career.

Secondly, those Agents who were lawyers and accountants did the same work as any other Agent, including making arrests, conducting interviews, participating in raids, etc. They were expected to be armed at all times.

While Agents were authorized to carry personally-owned firearms, few if any would have a Model 13, since that was already the issue revolver. Why buy another one? The more likely personally-owned firearm was the S&W Model 19. I had a Model 27 and a Model 649.

Finally, FBI-issue revolvers remained the property of the government upon retirement. You turned it in and were not permitted to keep it. No government-issue Model 13-2 was ever sold to the public by the FBI. Some were transferred to other federal agencies, some were retained for reference/historical/training purposes, and the rest were destroyed. It would be quite unlikely to have a Bureau-issued revolver.

PS. The "discouraged to be armed in the office" is another canard. What was discouraged in most metropolitan field offices and headquarters, was wearing the firearm exposed in the office. This was a different time and place, and since the carrying of firearms was not common in most urban areas, the bosses did not want to frighten the clerks and non-Agent employees. Since most Agents wore suits, if you walked around with your jacket off, you were supposed to secure the firearm in your desk. In smaller and/or more rural offices and posts, this was rarely enforced.

 

[sigp220.45]

Finally, FBI-issue revolvers remained the property of the government upon retirement. You turned it in and were not permitted to keep it. No government-issue Model 13-2 was ever sold to the public by the FBI. Some were transferred to other federal agencies, some were retained for reference/historical/training purposes, and the rest were destroyed. It would be quite unlikely to have a Bureau-issued revolver.

PS.

This part is only true after 1993. Prior to that retiring Agents were allowed to buy their guns under a special deal with GSA, as I mentioned above. This came to a crashing halt in the Clinton administration.

There are many Bureau issued guns out there, some owned by members of this forum. Most are Model 10s, but some Bureau Model 13s legally escaped with their retiring users.

I was an Agent from 1991-2016, and saw this first hand.

I was also present when a slew of 1076s that had been recalled were offered by S&W to Agents for $300 each, with the caveat they would never be allowed on the personally owned weapons list. I had an FFL at the time and I got a whole pallet load of them for Agents in the office.