The D&T top straps weren't added until a few years later. They started about the same time as the new/current rear sight was implemented.
Model 16-4 6” barrel for deer hunting
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The D&T top straps weren't added until a few years later. They started about the same time as the new/current rear sight was implemented.
Deer Hunting
I hunt Whitetail here in Illinois with some huge bucks and does taken.I use a Remington 1100 12 gauge with Lightfield 1&1/4oz.sabot slugs (550grain)>My handgun is a S&W 500 8&3/8" loaded with Hornady 500 grain JSP.The bucks here will go 50 yards with their heart and lungs blown out.The minimum I would use here is a .44mag.
I hunt Whitetail here in Illinois with some huge bucks and does taken.I use a Remington 1100 12 gauge with Lightfield 1&1/4oz.sabot slugs (550grain)>My handgun is a S&W 500 8&3/8" loaded with Hornady 500 grain JSP.The bucks here will go 50 yards with their heart and lungs blown out.The minimum I would use here is a .44mag.
keithhagan
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327 will be plenty.
I sent in a model 66-5 (which is D&T from the factory) with a 617 6" barrel and cylinder to Jack and had it converted to 327. It's great. The 327 will be plenty against deer, especially smaller bodied deer (I'm in South Florida) at hand-gun distances.
I've also considered having a second cylinder chambered to 321 GNR (already have a 21" contender barrel). I decided I likely wouldn't realize the benefit of the enhanced external ballistics frequently enough in live situations to offset the inconveniences of swapping cylinders, no off-the-shelf ammo, and handloading a bottleneck cartridge specially for the 6" barrel. I could just run my carbine load, but that wouldn't be optimal.
I may still do the 321 at some point. I have a 8 3/8" Model 53 barrel I've stowed away for a future project.
Off the shelf "target" 327 ammo from Federal out of a 16" barrel at 100 yards (~30 yds from a 6" barrel)
Lou_NC
Member
It amazes me how some folks consider drilling and tapping a top strap to be sacrilegious. If the rear sight is used, it's virtually undetectable, and if a base is mounted, who cares? I can't believe it took S&W so many decades to make the D&T standard.
Good luck with your project and post some pictures of the finished result and your deer!
Lou
Good luck with your project and post some pictures of the finished result and your deer!
Lou
If they had made a 16-5, it would have been. The 16-4 was made at the same time the 686-3 was made… 1988-1992.
As CH4 said, when the front edge of the rear sight changed from square to rounded, that's when they added those changes under the sight.
It always makes me genuinely curious (and not in a jerk kinda way) of how many folks that recoil in horror about altering a Model 16-4 were also hardcore S&W revolver fans from 1988-1992 and also bought or dreamed of buying a 16-4.
I say this because I am certain that this model just did not sell. Of this I am certain, simply because of the piles of them that CDNN and other outfits had of these years later, new old stock, untouched in original box, for chump change.
There have been other models that did not sell and become total dream boats later, but this one just feels recent to me.
I wish I still had an old CDNN catalog. They were practically giving these away like door prizes. And today you see collectors trying to hawk them for two grand.
I say this because I am certain that this model just did not sell. Of this I am certain, simply because of the piles of them that CDNN and other outfits had of these years later, new old stock, untouched in original box, for chump change.
There have been other models that did not sell and become total dream boats later, but this one just feels recent to me.
I wish I still had an old CDNN catalog. They were practically giving these away like door prizes. And today you see collectors trying to hawk them for two grand.
I own, shoot, load for a 32 mag...........I still would never carry it deer hunting. Too small and weak.
I am with the if your going to drill and tap the frame, why not just ream the original cylinder group. For all those who are recoiling in horror at the thought of drill and tapping the top strap, hauling the gun around in a holster of any kind will rub the mint off it anyway. Believe it or not, it is a gun and was actually designed to shoot things, not be a poor investment.
As far as power goes. It has way more than any arrow and lots of game falls to bow hunters. If you are unwilling to practice and take good shots within the limits of you gun and abilities, handguns of any caliber are not for you.
A good bow hunter with a 22 would be more deadly than many rifle hunters with 300 Win mags
As far as power goes. It has way more than any arrow and lots of game falls to bow hunters. If you are unwilling to practice and take good shots within the limits of you gun and abilities, handguns of any caliber are not for you.
A good bow hunter with a 22 would be more deadly than many rifle hunters with 300 Win mags
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This argument sounds like, " such and such caliber is ok for self defense unless the bad guy is over 6' and fat".
16-4
A look at what the OP will have when done, minus the scope!
The gun pictured is not in "collector condition" as it was a truck gun in another life! The original cylinder was reamed to 327 and it is a tack driver off a good rest to 100yds. I would use a red dot on an Allchin mount, very compact and easy to holster! A red dot is quite adequate out to 100yds and excellent in low light conditions!
This is my deer gun! 142yds, the longest kill and one old 10 point took 5 shots in the boiler house, starting at about 75-80yds with the last shot being 10yds away from the tree I was in! Some old bucks are tuff! ! !
jcelect
A look at what the OP will have when done, minus the scope!
The gun pictured is not in "collector condition" as it was a truck gun in another life! The original cylinder was reamed to 327 and it is a tack driver off a good rest to 100yds. I would use a red dot on an Allchin mount, very compact and easy to holster! A red dot is quite adequate out to 100yds and excellent in low light conditions!
This is my deer gun! 142yds, the longest kill and one old 10 point took 5 shots in the boiler house, starting at about 75-80yds with the last shot being 10yds away from the tree I was in! Some old bucks are tuff! ! !
jcelect
Don't need to remove the rear sight to see if it's D&T, just look under the top strap with the cylinder open. The holes are drilled all the way through the topstrap.
I find the 50 yards with heart and lungs blown out a poor justification for a larger caliber. It ain't dead dead till the brain runs out of oxygen unless brain shot. Lung shot deer can go quite a ways depending on what vessels and tubes got hit. If the pump gets a decent hole in it it won't be long. A major artery on top of it same deal. Part of it is whats going on when the bullet strikes, a spooked deer hit hard will sometimes jump and go, but I have had them drop like a rock to. I have shot deer with a 22, a 357, a 357 Herrett a 44 mag a 45 colt, a 25-35, a 6mm, a 308 a 30-06, a 300wm and a 338. A 22 to the brain and they fold right up, and so will a full grown 1500# steer. My favorite "shot" is right behind the front shoulder. I don't miss it by much. I have had a deer run that 50 yards after a perfect shot with a 300WM and drop like a rock with a 308. At 50 yards I had another drop in it place from a 357. I saw my brother shoot a bull elk in the head with a 223 and it flopped down and stayed there.
My conclusion is if YOU put the bullet where it belongs it will go down. 32 cal or 500 S&W it might still go a ways but it will go down. One might make it 50 yards more than another. If you can't find it in a 100-150 yard circle you should probably stay home
It ain't so much how big the bullet or the animal is as much as where it is.
My conclusion is if YOU put the bullet where it belongs it will go down. 32 cal or 500 S&W it might still go a ways but it will go down. One might make it 50 yards more than another. If you can't find it in a 100-150 yard circle you should probably stay home
It ain't so much how big the bullet or the animal is as much as where it is.
Lots of folks have taken small deer with the old .32-20. The .327 should do fine.
Protocall_Design
Vendor
Anything that kills a human will kill a deer. All of hunting is about shot placement, regardless of caliber.
mikeruns
Member
It will be interesting to see…I think it'll kill if you do your part. As mentioned, the .32-20 was used a lot for deer in it's day and so was the .25-20 Winchester in '92 rifles/carbines….also many deer died from 22 rimfire and that .327 is pretty hot….. hot enough to puncture deep into the side of a deer at reasonable ranges…cheers..
I purchased my Model 16-4 brand new back in 1989 when they were making them.
Same goes for my Model 631 purchased in 1990.
I was one of the few (apparently) who thought the .32 Magnum was a great idea. I even had a TC Contender with a 10" barrel that I used for shooting NRA Hunters Pistol.
Here is the 16 with a Model 617 with 6" barrel, Weigand mount and a Bausch & Lomb 4x scope. I decided I wanted something sleeker than the Weigand and ordered a Leupold dual dovetail mount instead. I found a 4X Leupold to go on top. It should make for a sleek package that will be easy to carry and easy to shoot. I may just have Jack run the factory cylinder out to .327 and save the Model 48 cylinder for later or have it fit to the 617
I have shot a lot of deer. For some reason I felt it necessary to take a deer with each rifle that was to obtain keeper status in my rack. I shot a deer with 22Hornet, 25/20, 32/20, 30carbine & 351 Win. RIFLE. All shot less than 50yds. The deer were in 125-150lb class.
Deer aren't that hard to kill but there are two kinds of deer guns. There are deer "hunting" guns used to go out in woods and actively track and pursue the game. This takes a cartridge of reasonable power to dispatch the deer humanely. The second type of deer gun is the killing gun. This can be about anything including a 22rf. Shooting from a stump at stationary deer doesn't take any fancy equipment.
I don't remember which writer said, any cartridge will work under ideal conditions but the wise hunter will select one that is practical for all conditions.
Deer aren't that hard to kill but there are two kinds of deer guns. There are deer "hunting" guns used to go out in woods and actively track and pursue the game. This takes a cartridge of reasonable power to dispatch the deer humanely. The second type of deer gun is the killing gun. This can be about anything including a 22rf. Shooting from a stump at stationary deer doesn't take any fancy equipment.
I don't remember which writer said, any cartridge will work under ideal conditions but the wise hunter will select one that is practical for all conditions.
Sounds like Elmer Keith. Because the only practical caliber in all conditions is a 338 win mag. Every deer I have shot with mine has hit the dirt, where as I had one go maybe 50 yards with and perfect 300 yard heart shot from a 300 WM
All conditions includes: wind gusting, snowing, 400 yard down hill shot at a monster 300# Muley buck that is stating at the edge of a pine tree with a light bit of it between me and his front shoulder.
I now carry a 338 elk hunting because I had almost exactly that shot at a great bull elk while carrying a Mohawk 600 in 308 and didn't take it, Backed off and tried another approach and when I got there he was gone. But, I had previously killed 2 bull elk and a lot of deer stone dead where they stood with that little 308
Sometimes it boils down to what shot you/can will take with the gear YOU decide to take into the fields.
I hate guys who take bad shots with any gun especially light ones. But, I also respect guys who hunt within the limitations of their equipment. Bow hunters around here kill a lot of elk. I doubt many of them are over 50 yards. A guy with the same hunting skills, that practiced as much with a 327 as they do with their bows would be every bit or more effective and humane
All conditions includes: wind gusting, snowing, 400 yard down hill shot at a monster 300# Muley buck that is stating at the edge of a pine tree with a light bit of it between me and his front shoulder.
I now carry a 338 elk hunting because I had almost exactly that shot at a great bull elk while carrying a Mohawk 600 in 308 and didn't take it, Backed off and tried another approach and when I got there he was gone. But, I had previously killed 2 bull elk and a lot of deer stone dead where they stood with that little 308
Sometimes it boils down to what shot you/can will take with the gear YOU decide to take into the fields.
I hate guys who take bad shots with any gun especially light ones. But, I also respect guys who hunt within the limitations of their equipment. Bow hunters around here kill a lot of elk. I doubt many of them are over 50 yards. A guy with the same hunting skills, that practiced as much with a 327 as they do with their bows would be every bit or more effective and humane
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Well said. I too have taken deer with some small rifles and pistols. Modern bullets have made a lot of marginal cartridges capable deer rounds. Most of my deer with handguns have been with cast bullets in various calibers. When using this gun it will be from a blind or tree stand and places where I can pick my shot. I will more than likely have either a T/C Contender in .250 Savage or an EABCO BF pistol in 6.5 BRM where 200+ yards might happen. If I am sitting somewhere that a 50 - 200 yards at most are possible I will be carrying a FA 83 .454 Casull. The Model 16 will be reserved for 50 yards and in. I don't take marginal shots and I am very patient. I will be practicing with the equipment I plan on using. To me hunting is a serious endeavor and taking the life of an animal should be done in an ethical manner as quickly as possible. If someone wants to hunt with a .44 or .454 for everything that is fine but some of us like to experiment and test the capabilities of different cartridges. I also plan on using the 16 for Coyotes, Bobcats , hogs and maybe even a Turkey. Just to even it out, hopefully I can get a shot at a deer or pig with my .500 Linebaugh.
When people post about hunting the Whitetail deer, the most common big game animal in the US, you must remember that there is a huge difference in size from one region to another. I appreciate the different opinions and experiences. Information makes us all better hunters.
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