model 17-3 "no" cyclinder/cone gap

[dumbert]

second of my k-17s bought not long ago, used but really nice

no visible light seen when held "rightly" sideways to bright sky, no gap on 5 of 6 holes, only a hint of gap on hole 6
awesome accurate, real nice trigger (of course, as expected)
no hint that I can feel of cylinder drag when CLEAN
but after 5 dozen rounds or so (shooting cheapo bulk 22 any/all flavors), some cylinder drag noticeable, both cocking to SA or shooting rapid fire DA, enough to throw DA timing off, my timing that is, not the gun's timing
when dirty, inspection of cylinder face will show (if look close) drag marks lagging on at least 5 holes, per direction of cylinder turn, of course, at top of cylinder chambers, not full circle but lagging "skid marks" if you will, re; powder residue
when cleaned, cannot see that on cylinder face
push closed cylinder back with thumb (against spring pressure), gap ample, though not over generous
gun lockup is real good, nice and tight, no endshake issues, etc., geat shooter, smooth, everything good you hear about k-frames (as are all my Ks)

thinking maybe needs a 0.002 shim to set front gap ?
what do think ?
where to find shims ? (Numrich maybe ?)
easy enough to do yourself, I presume ?

other notions ??

I have actually run quite a few rounds through this one, alternating with my other... how quick the cylinder drag shows up or not may be connected to how dirty ammo is burning, etc.
I could just spray & wipe every few dozen rounds, but want to put it right
(I will never lay a file on any k-frame, period; NOT a option)


thanks

 

[Camster]

It should be repaired-with a BC gap of .006 or so.No one would suggest a file.I don't know if the procedure is the same for a K22,but when I had the same issue with my Colt SAA New Frontier, I returned it to Colt,where they put a special rod down the bore,attached a cutter to the end and backcut it to specs.

 

[dumbert]

It should be repaired-with a BC gap of .006 or so.No one would suggest a file.I don't know if the procedure is the same for a K22,but when I had the same issue with my Colt SAA New Frontier, I returned it to Colt,where they put a special rod down the bore,attached a cutter to the end and backcut it to specs.

thanks
(you would be surprised at what some people on some other gun forums will suggest, so had to say that)

 

[cp1969]

I have had two K22's with the same problem. I traded the first one off without investigating. The second proved to be that the flange on the crane had become dished from contact with the sideplate screw which retains the crane, from all the openings and closings of the cylinder. I bought that gun new and estimated that at least 25K rounds had been fired through it.

Unfortunately, the fix is a new crane, which is a factory only item. The gun has to go back to the factory. S&W did turn it around quickly, though.

 

[Art Doc]

1. These guns run tight tolerances. If it doesn't drag or bind then you are not correct when you say the gap is zero. Zero gap means contact. It is likely just very close. I have seen K22s and K38s running as a little as .002 BC gap that worked fine when clean but would bind fairly quickly by the second box of ammo as guns this tight balk when dirty.

2. If you feel the gap is insufficient first try a good cleaning. There may be a tiny layer of grime or carbon on the cylinder face and or the rear of the barrel.

3. Make sure the cylinder is properly installed and all screws tightened. I have put revolvers back together with some slight misalignment of parts causing friction. Loosening and tightening the screws fixed it.

 

[dumbert]

I duuno, ain't got a 0.002" feeler left in my set...

but my other K-17-4, bought from Jim Supica "probably never fired" (until I got it) BC gap on that feels 0.003"

my K-48-3 in 22 WMR, it feels 0.004"

0.006 seems a tad loose for the rimfires
some folks say 0.002" min to 0.004" max for STATIC BC (holding cylinder forward) is fair

sure don't look like yoke/crane wear on none of 'em

 

[dumbert]

1. These guns run tight tolerances. If it doesn't drag or bind then you are not correct when you say the gap is zero. Zero gap means contact. It is likely just very close. I have seen K22s and K38s running as a little as .002 BC gap that worked fine when clean but would bind fairly quickly by the second box of ammo as guns this tight balk when dirty.

2. If you feel the gap is insufficient first try a good cleaning. There may be a tiny layer of crime or carbon on the cylinder face and or the rear of the barrel.

3. Make sure the cylinder is properly installed and all screws tightened. I have put revolvers back together with some slight misalignment of parts causing friction. Loosening and tightening the screws fixed it.

understood SP, exactly what I said
cannot "see gap" but NO there is no contact when clean, nada, zilch, no drag (hence there IS a gap), but cannot see or measure since "somebody" lost my <0.003" feelers)
only like you said, once build up some residue
when clean, it's slick, and smooth as a baby's behind

I just never saw one I couldn't see daylight thru at all when held to light (and CLEAN), that's all

THANKS !!

PS
ain't you off double secret probation yet ??

 

[H Richard]

There are some who would "love" that tight a gap for the accuracy. Keeping it clean every box or so isn't a terrible burden. As you said, the el-cheapo bulk ammo may (is usually) dirty, and contributing to the problem. Have you tried quality standard velocity ammo in it? May solve your problem.

 

[dumbert]

thanks HR
yep, I have concluded the same

never was anything wrong with a spray-n-wipe with some breakfree in between shooting some more- I always have some in kit anyway, 'cause I always clean 'em before leaving the range, whether 5 shots fired or 500

just needed some reassurance
I didn't really notice this happening as quick as I might have, thunk it was just maybe me when 1st noticed ("badfinger"), but got to looking closer and questioning

 

[ms]

Sounds like endshake

second of my k-17s bought not long ago, used but really nice

no visible light seen when held "rightly" sideways to bright sky, no gap on 5 of 6 holes, only a hint of gap on hole 6...

push closed cylinder back with thumb (against spring pressure), gap ample, though not over generous...

no endshake issues, etc.,
thanks

This doesn't make sense. If you have essentially no gap with the cylinder pushed forward, and an ample gap with the cylinder pushed back, you have endshake.

 

[dumbert]

just curious... did all the 17-3s come with wide hammer spur and wide target trigger ?
this one did
my 17-4 did not

(I do really like having BOTH)

 

[cp1969]

It is endshake.

Take the cylinder out, take the cylinder off the crane. Reinstall the crane only. See if it moves forward under pressure when it is in the closed position. You are not looking for much; it only takes a few thousandths to wipe out the b/c gap. Examine the face of the flange on the crane which contacts the retaining screw. I will bet it, or the screw, is worn.

 

[dumbert]

when you push the cylinder backward with your thumb that's not static BC
all will move some
"excessive total BC" is bad, yes
there is a front and a rear


connotations of words - there really is no such thing as ZERO BC gap or ZERO endshake, unless gun is frozen solid


ENDSHAKE, need .002 minimum (TOTAL endshake)
anywhere from .002 to .004 EXCESS/ENDSHAKE ok, but .008 is TOO MUCH
NEED total of .002 End Shake to PREVENT CASES FROM DRAGGING ON THE RECOIL SHEILD.

not all may agree with that, but it works for me

 

[dumbert]

last comment
new here, did not mean to start any arguments (and my syntax may be off, usually is)
asked for help, got help, and much appreciate it

BC and endshake, what's good, what's bad, what's acceptable, google that, you will hear different things from different sources
but -
"when clean, runs like hot butter, and spooky accurate".. that pretty much works for everybody
so thanks, guys !

but if "locks up like a bank vault" really meant what intuition suggests, you would never again open the vault door without magnesium cutting rod

 

[dant]

Nothing 'wrong' with a 'close gap, BUT as you found out ,with ANY fouling or build up, then there is drag,,,,then its an issue...ANY good 'smith' can stretch the upper crane leg a tad, and "open" up the gap slightly, and NO, I do NOT use or tell folks to "shim" ...have seen what can happen to a defense gun,nuff said.................
NO need to go back to the factory for this type of repair,unless there is NO-ONE in your area who can do the job........

 

[bgrafsr]

Another thing to check, is to see if there are any unburned flakes of powder or residue under the extractor. If there is, it can cause the cylinder to push forward towards the barrel.
You do need some back and forth movement of the cylinder on the yoke, but only a small amount. If the yoke, without the cylinder on it and put on the gun, has no movement forward or back when the yoke screw is tightened, then that is good.

If there is hardly any gap when the cylinder is installed, then you have two options. Either stretch the rear of the yoke and then trim it square, which means you need the proper tools, or install an endshake bearing behind the ejector rod, which means removing the rod from the cylinder. The bearings can be ordered from Brownell's. It is always a good idea to make sure the end of the yoke is square, no matter which method you use. Again, Brownell's has the tool for this procedure.

If you remove the rod, be certain which way the rod has to be turned so it can be removed.