Model 19-3 overpressured ???

[Belgian686]

Hi, I would need some advice of you about following :

Someone is selling a used 19-3 6" for about 160 $, honestly claiming the gun has had an overpressure issue in one of it's chambers. There is nothing visible, but his concern is that one of the chambers is very sticky, to the point he has to drive out empties with a hammer and punch. He took the gun back after the first shooting to the gunsmith who sold him the gun, and the guy doesn't want to take back the gun. I do not know yet if the issue comes up with .357 of .38 Spl.

The seller is very honest in the sense he states it clearly on the sales ad. I don't judge the gunsmith, and I do not know his arguments for not taking it back. I personally wouldn't buy at his place for his hugely overpriced items.

My question : can this very sticky chamber on a19-3 (made in years where QC was still perfect) be a matter of overpressure ?
I am very skeptical about this. In Belgium, it's nearly impossible to find a replacement cylinder for this gun, so swapping parts is not an option. But can it be considered to use the gun as range gun (anyway the only option here - carrying is completely out of possibilities), even loading only 5 chambers (and marking the chamber with the "issue" with some red paint, not visible when closed) ?

Thanks a lot for your opinions on this.

 

[steelslaver]

If I suspected a cylinder had fired an over pressure round that damaged it without rupturing it, I would look at 2 things. #1 measure the stop notch depth, compare it to others and when clean and with light could I see a dip opposite it inside chamber. Next I would measure it with calipers to see if it was out of round. Measuring across cylinder on all 3 opposing chambers any bulge should be detectable. NO metal disappeared, but may be displaced

I could not stand it and would not chance it, but then I have several model 19s and a couple of spare cylinders.

 

[4barrel]

If an over pressure 38's will stick also. A cylinder here is about $125.

 

[colt_saa]

If it were me, I would buy it and place WTB ads on any of the various shooting boards that I frequent. Eventually a cylinder will show up.

Only you know how often that can happen in your Country.

If I lived outside the US, I would investigate what it takes to import a replacement part. In some countries it is just a form that needs to be filled out

I might also contact Smith & Wesson via phone (not E-mail) and try to talk with a Supervisor. A run of the mill Customer Service rep will not know the procedures for exporting and importing parts. Your Country might have an Authorized Smith & Wesson repair facility. It does not matter if this revolver is one that would fall into Factory covered service or not, that Facility would already know how to bring parts into the Country. This would make it a task of time and money.

Now if Model 19s are common in your Country and can be had cheaply, then none of this matters

 

[Heinz]

Something in this description does not sound correct. The 19-3 is a recessed cylinder. There could be a couple of reasons one chamber is sticking. I would check the cylinder as Steelslaver indicated above. You may get a bargain if the cylinder is not damaged or out of round. At $160 it might be worth it for the parts in the EU. But, if it is off in the measurements, just walk away, better things will turn up.

 

[mikepriwer]

Numrich (Gun Parts) lists several cylinders for a model 19-3. Prices seem to be in the $120 - $140 US. If importing another cylinder is not a problem, this would be one solution.

However, I would think carefully about what other damage might have happened to the gun, that is not easily visible or obvious. If it were me, I would not bother with taking a chance with it.

Mike Priwer

 

[austintexas]

sticky

I once owned a Smith that had sticky chambers. Don't know if it was undersized chambers like a .22 or not. It shot well and I switched to only shooting nickel cases and problem disappeared.
SWCA 892

 

[scooter123]

First, S&W now uses Statistical Process for it's Quality procedures so the current quality is vastly superior to what it was when everything was inspected by hand. If you don't believe this the major automakers require a failure rate of less than 1 in 5 million at there assembly points and the only way to achieve this level of quality is by insuring that a bad part cannot ever be made. Which is what SPC is so effective at insuring.

Second, that bulged chamber is most likely a result of ammunition that was hand made. Need I say more?

If you can't find a replacement cylinder to replace that damaged revolver it's a gun that won't pass Proof and as I understand it in most of Europe it is actually illegal to sell a firearm that won't pass proof. I would suggest you not even consider purchasing that revolver unless you are willing to use it only as a source of parts.

 

[rincar]

Yes Nickel cases might cure the problem.

 

[BC38]

I bought a 15-5 at auction a few years ago that had exactly the same issue. On five chambers the cases just fell out, but one chamber was so hard to extract I was afraid I was going to bend the rod or star getting the spent cases out.
The cylinder had a bulge and almost invisible crack right under the stop notch inside the chamber. The only sign from the outside was that there was a kind of a "stretch mark" inline with the stop notch. Obviously an over-pressure load that was just a tiny bit less than what it would have taken to blow the side of the cylinder out.
See the pictures below.
The only solution I was comfortable with was to replace the whole cylinder and ejector assembly.
Shoots great now.

 

[sceva]

leave that chamber empty and use it as a 5 shooter

 

[steelslaver]

leave that chamber empty and use it as a 5 shooter

One whoop, loaded wrong chamber result make that idea a NO.

 

[LostintheOzone]

Pass.

You have all the info you need unless you can source a cylinder where you reside.

 

[Belgian686]

First of all thanks for all your good advice .

I was tempted by the price and the overall good look, and the recessed chambers of the proposed gun. Changing the cylinder is unfortunately too cumbersome and expensive (part + labour and about 250$ of import taxes and licenses). Especially when knowing I can find 6" model 19s for 300 to 400 Euro (330-440$), having no other non visible traces of excessive charges. Plus I have a mint 66-1 6" (pinned and recessed), and a clean 14-2, both mechanically perfect.

Very best from Belgium.

B686

 

[Belgian686]

leave that chamber empty and use it as a 5 shooter

I thought a minute about that too, but only after solidly obstructing the bad chamber.

 

[Geeorge]

I'd buy it and take my time and find a cylinder, cylinders are easy to change, youtube will show you how

 

[steelslaver]

Ya, if you could get another recessed K 357 cylinder it probably wouldn't be much to change it out. Usual problem if the length of the yoke tube. A bit to long or short. To long and the tube needs filed off dead square, too short and a shim or 2 added. Interestingly MOST of the time I have not had timing issues changing out cylinders of similar vintage.

I guess using the cylinder with some sort of plug well fixed in the chamber would be acceptable.

I wish I could buy nice model 19s for under $450

 

[jem102]

In the early 70's a friend had a 4" M19 that had sticky chambers. Ut was returned to S&W X2. Each return was a little better but it was never quite right. He sold it to another of our friends that didn't seem to mind beating up his palm during extraction. As best I recall the gun never got any better he just got used to it and shot it for many years.

 

[AveragEd]

Back in the early 1970s, I bought my first revolver, a new Model 19 (I can't recall the dash number - I wasn't aware of such things at that time). At the same time, I was a beginning handloader and worked up some loads at or very near the maximum loading in the old Speer manual (#8 if I recall correctly). I later discovered by buying some other manuals that those manuals listed some heavier powder charges than the rest. Anyway, it wasn't long before very stickly, painful to the hand extraction set in.

I returned the gun to Smith & Wesson where the cylinder was replaced and all was well until the stickly extractions returned. I still didn't know what was causing it - after all, my loads were within the range in my manual. Smith & Wesson generously replaced the cylinder a second time but this time included a note with the gun cautioning me about my loads and advising that that they would not replace the cylinder under warranty again. That's when I bought some other manuals.

From the sounds of things, based upon the above experience, this now much more mature (age 76) and much more knowledgeable handloader suggests that a new cylinder is what your gun needs. Model 19s from that era are fine firearms that are highly regarded by those of us who cherish such things. Even with the cost of a replacement cylinder added to the asking price that is a good buy.

Ed

 

[Bill Lear]

When you see a Model 19 of any vintage going for $160 (Euros?), you have to know you're not looking at a collector piece. On the other hand, unless you have shot it and you have experienced the stuck case, and have had a chance to fully examine the gun, you really don't "know" anything beyond "the story" being told. I should point out that .357s tend to have sticky extraction with some factory loads requiring a mallet tap to get the cases out! When that model came out, the maximum SAAMI pressure was higher than is listed today, and while the K-frames could be damaged by lots of hot loads, .357 magnums aren't known for blowing out chambers, and the reason is because it has a high "psi" but overall moderate total chamber pressure compared to the big boys.
So, I'm just pointing out that unless the OP has been given the opportunity to have a knowledgeable person examine that gun, the story may just be what someone else presumes it to be. I would have gone over it with a magnifying glass - then took it home!

The gun may be perfectly safe to shoot nickel plated .38 specials - nickel plated cases are more slippery and tend to not conform as closely to any chamber imperfections. What does the offending chamber look like inside?

It took me about 5 minutes to find a veritable cornucopia of M19 cylinders on eBay, many that come with the entire yoke assembly. Even cylinders made back in the stone age such as that model, the basic locking recesses were accurate, and S&Ws are pretty forgiving of timing on carry up. Also, one can use the ratchet from the original to avoid dealing with timing the hand, so dropping in another cylinder really isn't hard, but it tends to be more cost-effective as a DIY process rather than farming everything out which ends up costing as much as a more perfect specimen.

On the other hand a Model 19 "range toy" limited to just five chambers for $160...I guess you could spend that money on a brand new Hi Point instead.

If I saw a Model 19 sitting on the shelf with NO cylinder for $160 it would be coming home with me!