Sebago Son
Member
You have more to worry about from an alien invasion from mars than having your K-Mag blow up from using factory ammo.
Model 19 cracked forcing cone - odds
- Thread starter Wfevans4
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BTW, just on case some here are unaware, Buffalo Bore .38 Special "Heavy" (#20A) 158 grain, +P SWCHP-GC will do 1,060 - 1,075 fps out of a 2.5" barrel in a M66/M19 - my actual results. That has been verified by your's truly many times with two different brand chronograph's. The same loading will do 1,025 - 1,040 fps out of a 2" Chief's Special. Out of a M19/66 with a 4" barrel 1,165- 1,175 fps. I would not feel under armed with that load!! IMHO it is a "milder 357 Magnum" in a .38 special cartridge and will not harm your gun nearly as much as a full magnum will a J or K Frame.
Listed below is what Buffalo Bore puts in writing on their website (copied and pasted). Unlike most ammo company listings, these claims are quite legit! Tim Sundles, the owner of BB also states they do not exceed the limits of pressure for the rated caliber, but I have no way to actually test that. Muzzle flash and recoil are still way less than with magnums and follow up shots are faster too. While this load is still stiff for a 2" J Frame, it is manageable, consistent and accurate load for most guns. I have shot boxes of this stuff over the years and it was always my #1 choice of ammo for EDC/CCW when I carried my M60-7, 2.5" M19, and most of the time when not in the woods in my 3" M65. Strictly for woods carry (in my 3" M65), I use Buffalo Bore 180 grain, hard cast SWC lead, .357 Magnum, Heavy Outdoors loading. I have kept them to a bare minimum in my M65 as they can not do that gun much good as a steady diet. If they need to stop an animal in the woods I have confidence they will. They gun can always be replaced - but when practicing with the M65 I will use .38 special 158 grain standard and +P's but load the 180 gr. Magnums for woods carry. If I am about town with that gun, the Buffalo Bore .38 special +P's are used.
Buffalo Bore #20A 158 grain 38 Special +P SWCHP-GC ammo:
> 1,040 fps (379 ft. lbs.) -- S&W mod. 60, 2-inch
> 1,059 fps (393 ft. lbs.) -- S&W mod. 66, 2.5-inch
> 1,143 fps (458 ft. lbs.) -- Ruger SP101, 3-inch
> 1,162 fps (474 ft. lbs.) -- S&W Mt. Gun, 4-inch
Listed below is what Buffalo Bore puts in writing on their website (copied and pasted). Unlike most ammo company listings, these claims are quite legit! Tim Sundles, the owner of BB also states they do not exceed the limits of pressure for the rated caliber, but I have no way to actually test that. Muzzle flash and recoil are still way less than with magnums and follow up shots are faster too. While this load is still stiff for a 2" J Frame, it is manageable, consistent and accurate load for most guns. I have shot boxes of this stuff over the years and it was always my #1 choice of ammo for EDC/CCW when I carried my M60-7, 2.5" M19, and most of the time when not in the woods in my 3" M65. Strictly for woods carry (in my 3" M65), I use Buffalo Bore 180 grain, hard cast SWC lead, .357 Magnum, Heavy Outdoors loading. I have kept them to a bare minimum in my M65 as they can not do that gun much good as a steady diet. If they need to stop an animal in the woods I have confidence they will. They gun can always be replaced - but when practicing with the M65 I will use .38 special 158 grain standard and +P's but load the 180 gr. Magnums for woods carry. If I am about town with that gun, the Buffalo Bore .38 special +P's are used.
Buffalo Bore #20A 158 grain 38 Special +P SWCHP-GC ammo:
> 1,040 fps (379 ft. lbs.) -- S&W mod. 60, 2-inch
> 1,059 fps (393 ft. lbs.) -- S&W mod. 66, 2.5-inch
> 1,143 fps (458 ft. lbs.) -- Ruger SP101, 3-inch
> 1,162 fps (474 ft. lbs.) -- S&W Mt. Gun, 4-inch
shil
Member
My 19-4, with a 6" barrel, suffered a forcing cone crack with 200 rounds of WW 125 grain. Returned to the factory with request for 4" barrel and the then-new L-Frame smooth trigger. Factory honored request. The revolver has now been "babied" for decades. When I want full-power, I go to my 686.
Jim Watson
Member
In a bygone day...
In my area the conventional wisdom was that a M19 was best served with cast 158s when Magnums were wanted; 6000 of them in one example.
It was printed that the LE criterion was 25% Magnums, 75% Specials.
I have a M12 that I shoot sparingly; it is what George Washington would have called an "overcoat pocket pistol." I passed up another with sound receiver ring and forcing cone. The price was low and I could have profiteered on it, apparently the storekeeper did not know what he had traded for.
A friend managed to crack the forcing cone of a Blackhawk by regular use of those "Ruger only" .45 Colt loads. Ruger replaced it and most of the rest of the moving parts for a modest price.
In my area the conventional wisdom was that a M19 was best served with cast 158s when Magnums were wanted; 6000 of them in one example.
It was printed that the LE criterion was 25% Magnums, 75% Specials.
I have a M12 that I shoot sparingly; it is what George Washington would have called an "overcoat pocket pistol." I passed up another with sound receiver ring and forcing cone. The price was low and I could have profiteered on it, apparently the storekeeper did not know what he had traded for.
A friend managed to crack the forcing cone of a Blackhawk by regular use of those "Ruger only" .45 Colt loads. Ruger replaced it and most of the rest of the moving parts for a modest price.
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OK, this is from a really old guy. Back in the day-and that day might not be as far back as many think-the LE practice was that ALL revolver training used .38 Spl ammunition. Some might be reloads at wadcutter velocities. This was the practice when the model 19 was conceived and continued for decades. Didn't matter what the duty ammo was.
This sort of thing came to a screeching halt after (I'm glossing over details) 2 things: the Newhall incident, and the law suits about "failure to train". This resulted in ALL training and qualification being done with full power duty (or fmj ) ammunition of whatever caliber. You can thank the liability insurance carriers for this.
We trained a lot-with Federal 125 gr Magnums. I've no idea how many rounds it takes, but we did demonstrate that you can batter L frames to where they're beyond the capability of our armorers to fix. They'd come back from S&W like new guns-dunno what that cost.
This sort of thing came to a screeching halt after (I'm glossing over details) 2 things: the Newhall incident, and the law suits about "failure to train". This resulted in ALL training and qualification being done with full power duty (or fmj ) ammunition of whatever caliber. You can thank the liability insurance carriers for this.
We trained a lot-with Federal 125 gr Magnums. I've no idea how many rounds it takes, but we did demonstrate that you can batter L frames to where they're beyond the capability of our armorers to fix. They'd come back from S&W like new guns-dunno what that cost.
I replaced barrels in three of them over the years for folks in our pistol club - more stainless than blue guns (two M-66s and one M-65). There were about half a dozen guys who shot K-frames with .357 magnum ammo in our club so that amounted to half of them - but we shot every month and that was over a period of 15 years.
I haven't had one of my own crack but I quit shooting much 357 in them after 1980 or so.
I will also say one of my best friends shot a 4" 66 he carried on duty, and shot really hot handloads - his gun worked for all those years without a problem.
Riposte
Works for me - that is what I carry in my .357s (I don't carry .357 all that much) and my steel J-frame .38s - in my airweights I carry the standard pressure version - either in LHP or WC.
And yes, that load always exceeds 1000 fps in my 1 7/8" J's.
Riposte
Hugo Stiglitz
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Me too, in 1980ish. Mostly cast lead .38 Special and light cast lead .357 loads. Smith Wesson replaced the barrel.
Chrisj357
Member
I have a M-19 from late '70's. It took years of full power loads but yes, I had to have the forcing cone recut. Also the cylinder end shake was excessive. I Niw only shoot 38+P. But I have a 686 to get my full power fix
I have a Model 19-5 snub-nose that I picked up cheap at a local gun store many years ago. It was a Navajo Nation Tribal Police trade in. Most of the bluing was gone and I quickly realized the timing was off. I sent it to S&W's Performance Center for a complete look over and tweaking. Upon return it was super sweet. I have shot thousands of hot pounds through it with no issues. Eventually I had it engraved & re-blued. It is still one of my favorite revolvers.
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