Model 1917 45 ACP max load?

[KneverKnew]

I have a model 1917, both a "US Property" and a commercial version. I'm just curious if these N framed revolvers would be safe for a consistent diet of +P loadings or should I keep them in the standard loading category? This will be with both 165 and 230 jacketed bullets as well as 230 lead cast. Thanks.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Here we go again with the +P. The 1917 was designed for .45 ACP ball military cartridges. +P came along in the 1970s after SAAMI downgraded standard pressure cartridges. +P is simply modern pressures roughly equivalent to .45 military ball ammo made for WWI. You can shoot it without blowing up your gun, but target loads will be more pleasant to shoot, IMO.

 

[grendelbane]

Lots of those guns were hot rodded, and some blew up. You can see that some of the loads used were very stout, and they weren't heat treated.

Still, I think they deserve an honorable semi-retirement. I have a Colt M1917, and while I do shoot it on occasion, I don't push the limits.

Plus, the old style stocks are uncomfortable for me with hard kicking loads.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Lots of those guns were hot rodded, and some blew up. You can see that some of the loads used were very stout, and they weren't heat treated.

I don't know what you are referring to. Military guns were not hot rodded when used with military ball ammo. None blew up because they WERE heat treated even if S&W said it was unnecessary because their steel was sufficiently strong for .45 ACP to begin with. If you don't want to shoot .45 ACP +P, then don't. But don't imply it is unsafe for a Model 1917.

 

[grendelbane]

They were popular among civilians after the war, and some of them were indeed hot rodded. Look at Elmer Keith for an example.

I never implied that they were unsafe, now did I?

 

[cda322]

Here we go again with the +P. The 1917 was designed for .45 ACP ball military cartridges. +P came along in the 1970s after SAAMI downgraded standard pressure cartridges. +P is simply modern pressures roughly equivalent to .45 military ball ammo made for WWI. You can shoot it without blowing up your gun, but target loads will be more pleasant to shoot, IMO.

Not sure where you got that, because it's pretty easy to find the correct info, but WW1 and WW2 .45 ACP were moving at 825 fps +/- 25 fps. 230gr ball ammo has been pretty consistent over 100 years. +p is considerably higher pressure. .45 ACP was designed to be roughly analogous to the old .45LC military loads in many respects.

So, no, I wouldn't feed a 1917 +p ammo.

 

[KneverKnew]

Thanks for the input fellas. I'll keep it down to Military ball levels.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Keep in mind that velocities of .45 ACP military ball are measured with consideration of 1911 semi-automatic guns. Velocities and pressures of .45 ACP out of 1917's are higher because none of the energy is siphoned off to moving the slide and ejecting the spent round.

 

[grendelbane]

Plenty of energy is lost on the revolver due to the cylinder gap.

The pressure will be about the same in either example.

My sample size is small, but I have not seen any significant difference in velocity from testing several M1911s and M1917s. The revolvers do have a half inch longer barrel, plus the length of the cylinder. So the M1911 is very slightly more efficient, losing less from the slide movement than the revolver does from the cylinder gap.

 

[ralph7]

I have a model 1917, both a "US Property" and a commercial version. I'm just curious if these N framed revolvers would be safe for a consistent diet of +P loadings or should I keep them in the standard loading category? This will be with both 165 and 230 jacketed bullets as well as 230 lead cast. Thanks.

The key word that the OP asked is safe.
It's certainly not going to blow up with plus p ammo.
The only thing that is blown up is the supposed potency of +P ammo, regardless of caliber.

 

[Kinman]

I've got into the .45ACP/AR revolvers late in my shooting life. It just past me by in my youth. "Who wants to fool around with those durn moon clips anyway?" I now own Model 1917s, a Brazilian and a number of Pre-Model 25's. One thing I've learned is that the early revolvers do not shoot lead target bullets any better than they shoot jacketed semi wad cutters, they have shallow rifling just like the early 1911's. I shoot mostly plated bullets through mine, push them just as fast you like as long as you stay below fast lead velocities. They tend to peel or come apart if you push them any faster but I find them accurate as I am capable of. The Model of 1950 and 1955 have deeper rifling and shoot lead much better than the early models. Have fun they are great comfortable shooters that wont break the bank. I tend to shoot mostly 45 Auto Rim just because I like it better, although for carry I load up with +P Golden Sabers or the like. Both of my early shooters have been customized with shorter barrels.