Model 1917 .45 Revolver

My maternal grandfather was WW1 infantry and carried an Enfield. He held it in high regard. I wish that I had more time to spend with him before he passed.
 
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Just to help out the OP....here's his photos of his really nice 1917. By the way, Welcome to the forum!! Great way to introduce yourself!!

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Best Regards, Les
 
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Thanks all. When I attempt to post a reply (other than 'Quick Reply' I am greeted by two boxes, the 'Reply to Thread' and the 'Additional Options'. Both are blank, (no text boxes shown), dark grey and does not allow any way to type in information or attach photos. I tried in Chrome, Firefox and in Edge, (formally I.E.) with the same results.
 
Doesn't the M1917 bolt cock on closing? Some felt that was a disadvantage. I guess it's a matter of opinion, but I think all sporting rifle bolts cock on opening.
 
Thanks all. When I attempt to post a reply (other than 'Quick Reply' I am greeted by two boxes, the 'Reply to Thread' and the 'Additional Options'. Both are blank, (no text boxes shown), dark grey and does not allow any way to type in information or attach photos. I tried in Chrome, Firefox and in Edge, (formally I.E.) with the same results.


You need to scroll to the right to see the editor. Something has happened to the forum software and it is not centering the text box in your browser window. To scroll over, look below the blank window for the right/left scroll bar and drag it to the right until you see the editor.
 
Doesn't the M1917 bolt cock on closing? Some felt that was a disadvantage. I guess it's a matter of opinion, but I think all sporting rifle bolts cock on opening.

Yes, it does. Most modern sporting bolt actions cock on opening. After WW I, Remington built hunting rifles based on the 1917 action. I have read about a custom rifle builder who uses 1917 actions for very large caliber cartridges.

The British Short Model Lee Enfield (SMLE) also cocks on closing and many folks felt that the SMLE was the fastest operating bolt action.
 
Just to help out the OP....here's his photos of his really nice 1917. By the way, Welcome to the forum!! Great way to introduce yourself!!

svYlOEs_d.jpg


NYlzh0D_d.jpg


kCuwUOX_d.jpg


Best Regards, Les

You tried Les, you tried! :rolleyes:
 
"The British Short Model Lee Enfield (SMLE) also cocks on closing and many folks felt that the SMLE was the fastest operating bolt action."

Part of the British infantry doctrine back then was the "Mad Minute" and it was practiced frequently by the Tommies. Basically, it involved everyone in the squad, company, etc. opening up, firing their SMLEs as rapidly as possible at the enemy. The British felt that the cock-on-closing bolt action was a better design for facilitating rapid fire and I can see that it probably was. Many may not be aware that the SMLE's detachable magazine very rarely left the rifle. It was loaded in the rifle by using stripper clips.
 
The 1917 Enfield held six .30 because its magazine was originally designed to hold five near-magnum .280 in 1913. Since the standard stripper clip held five for a Springfield, if you wanted to make use of that extra round of capacity, you would have had to have some loose ammo in your pocket.

Lacking a cutoff, the troops soon found that they could wedge the follower down with a penny and execute the drill field manual of arms smoothly. Lots of '17 and Mauser sporters had the rear of the follower beveled so you could close the bolt on an empty without manipulation.
 
The 1917 Enfield held six .30 because its magazine was originally designed to hold five near-magnum .280 in 1913. ...
I always thought it was because the P-14 was designed to accommodate five rounds of .303 British, which is of course a rimmed cartridge. The rimless 30-06 requires less space per round so that six rounds fit easily.

I doubt that these two different explanations are mutually exclusive.
 
The .276 Enfield cartridge didn't last very long and was not formally adopted by the British due to the onset of hostilities in August 1914. There was a small number of rifles chambered for the .276 cartridge manufactured for Army field trials, called the P-13. After the decision was made to stop further work on the .276 development, the P-13 rifle design was then modified to accept the standard .303 British cartridge and thereafter was called the P-14, which was manufactured mainly in the USA, and in large numbers, for the British military. I don't know about the P-14's magazine capacity situation. The .276 Enfield cartridge case was somewhat fatter (larger diameter) than the .303 (or for that matter, even the U. S. .30-'06) case so the P-13 might have required a deeper and wider magazine well in order to hold 5 of the .276 cartridges. When the P-13 was converted to use the .303 cartridge and became the P-14 rifle, there were probably no changes made to the original P-13 magazine dimensions. As the P-17 (M1917 Enfield) was pretty much the same as the P-14 except for the cartridge and likely used the same magazine box dimensions as the P-13, that's probably why it could hold six .30-'06 cartridges. This is all guesswork as I have no P-13 or P-14 rifles to look at and measure.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that the P-13, P-14, and P-17 actions were Mausers, but they operated much the same. The U. S. '03 Springfield rifle definitely used a fairly close copy of the Mauser 98 action, and it did infringe on the Mauser patents. I have not heard of any Mauser patent infringement issues regarding the P-14 Enfield action.
 
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You need to scroll to the right to see the editor. Something has happened to the forum software and it is not centering the text box in your browser window. To scroll over, look below the blank window for the right/left scroll bar and drag it to the right until you see the editor.


Not the software's fault.
Hit the Reply Button or the Edit button, and scroll up or down till you get to the HUGE pic in Post #8 of the two GIs.
The software resizes large pics so that no scroll bar is necessary when viewing a thread. When adding a new post or editing a prior post, the pic reverts to full size. I wish it did not do so, but that is how it works and I am glad we have it for the normal thread viewing mode.
 
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Well, yes, the P14 was made to hold five rimmed .303s, but it was greatly simplified by developing from the P13 with its pot bellied magazine for the large diameter .276 Enfield case. (Oops, I called it a .280, that was the later EM rifle cartridge.) That carried over to a sixth .30 round in the 1917.

The British called the P13/14 a "Mauser type action" so I figure that is close enough.

I wonder just which Mauser everybody was looking at. The 1903 lacks the internal receiver ring wall of a 98, more like a 95. The 13 is cock on close, like a SMLE... or a 95 Mauser.

The Enfield has a very nice safety, easier to get at than the Mauser type wing safety, especially if you are keeping your thumb on the right side of the stock so recoil doesn't stuff it up your nose due to the short bayonet handle stock.
 
I believe the US government had to pay royalties to Mauser in order to manufacture the M1903. I'm not sure, but I think when the war broke out the royalties stopped.

One thing you have to say about the M1903, it is a handy rifle. With its improved sights, the '03A3 makes a great field rifle as is, no sporterizing needed. I really do like the M1917, but it is a little unwieldy compared to the '03 / '03A3.
 
I did some research on Harry Truman's Model 1917 Colt revolver. To quote from my book 101 Classic Firearms:

"A picture exists of a feisty Army artillery captain by the name of Harry Truman bearing one in France. He liked the gun so much that he bought it from the government at the close of the war, paying all of $18.00 for it at the time. It's now on display in the Truman Presidential Library in Independence, Missouri."

John
 
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