Model 1917 odd barrel markings - can you help?

[Buford57]

I believe I saw that one as well, but did not examine it closely. In the next case was another 1917 at $650, possibly refinished with badly chipped stocks. It lacked British proofs but had the tiny "Not English Made" stamp on the right side under the cylinder window. I only say refinished because it looks more like 1960s S&W blue than 1918 and the barrel, while US property marked, had no SN. If I hadn't recently picked up 2 other N frames I would have been tempted to pull the stocks and look for rework stamps.

 

[Muley Gil]

"Not English Made"

If you look closely, the stamp reads "Not English Make"

 

[Jack Flash]

... while US property marked, had no SN. ...

I would stay away from that one.

In the past, some people removed some or all of the US Property markings off these. I guess they didn't want anyone to think they stole it. While they were at it, they often removed the serial number from the butt frame as well.

Now days laws have changed and possessing a firearm that has had its s/n removed could land you in prison.

 

[Absalom]

.... and the barrel, while US property marked, had no SN.

I would stay away from that one.
......
Now days laws have changed and possessing a firearm that has had its s/n removed could land you in prison.

I believe Buford meant that the BARREL had no serial number. Only the frame serial is required. You can do with all the others whatever you want, including defacing and removing them

 

[JSR III]

All the M1917 revolvers sold to the US during WWI were marked United States Property before they left the factory.

As with most things S&W, words like "ALL", "NEVER" and "ALWAYS" should be used carefully. I once owned a 1917 that did not have the US Property marking because it was a club gun and given to the Army inspector in charge of overseeing the production of the 1917 at the S&W plant.

I realize that this is s special case but brings home the fact that with S&W's there is the possibility of finding guns that do not follow the typical mold and that fact alone does not make them fakes.

 

[Buford57]

I would stay away from that one.

In the past, some people removed some or all of the US Property markings off these. I guess they didn't want anyone to think they stole it. While they were at it, they often removed the serial number from the butt frame as well.

Now days laws have changed and possessing a firearm that has had its s/n removed could land you in prison.

Interesting take. Since the butt number and cylinder # were intact and matched, my thought was that the barrel had been replaced with NOS and not numbered to the gun, probably at the same time as the refinish. If the British proofs had been on the barrel (and if it hadn't had British proofs, why was the frame stamped "Not English Made"?) the new barrel would account for their absence.

I think to prove that the SN had been removed, there would need to be an indication that there had once been one there. This barrel flat looked just like they did after S&W stopped numbering barrels.

I passed on it based on price and general condition, although it timed better than the OP reported on the higher priced gun.

 

[Buford57]

"Not English Made"

If you look closely, the stamp reads "Not English Make"

Friend, I can't look that closely without a jeweler's loupe these days. You are, of course, correct. I had a .455 so marked at one time.

 

[Jack Flash]

... the butt number and cylinder # were intact and matched, my thought was that the barrel had been replaced with NOS and not numbered to the gun, probably at the same time as the refinish. If the British proofs had been on the barrel (and if it hadn't had British proofs, why was the frame stamped "Not English Made"?) the new barrel would account for their absence.

I think to prove that the SN had been removed, there would need to be an indication that there had once been one there. This barrel flat looked just like they did after S&W stopped numbering barrels.

I passed on it based on price and general condition, although it timed better than the OP reported on the higher priced gun.

Yes, I misread the original post. I thought the number was filed off the butt frame. Your deductions sound reasonable. Personally, I would be jittery around any firearm that had any serial number removed, from any place on the gun, but that's just me. But that is moot since from all indications the barrel is a replacement and never had a serial number.