Model 25-5 with Unusual Barrel Marking

[fyrwokr]

Have a customer that brought this in and we need info.
I am not usually stumped but here goes.
Have checked the referance books we have on hand and on-line
Says he bought this new at B&B Sales in North Hollywood, CA in '89.
No blue box that he can remember but possibly a wood presentation box.
It is a 25-5 in 45 Colt.
Serial number indicates 1979-1980 production.
Barrel length is 6 1/2" ribbed and pinned
The barrel has the marking of "45 Cal. Model 1950"
The grips appear to be dated 1988 - very hard to see the date
Target hammer but standard grooved trigger
I told him he needs to letter it, but also that we would see what other info we can come up with
Hope it is alright to use links to pictures -
Model 25-5 pictures by firearmsforsale - Photobucket
Thanks in advance for any info

 

[Flint Ridge]

Per SCSW 1,000 - 1,500 were sent out with the miss rolled barrels.

 

[smithnframe]

Nice pics! Why does the barrel look so slender at the muzzle?

 

[Art Doc]

Yup. A well known factory error.

 

[fyrwokr]

Ok, so I am using the same reference books as everyone else. My only question is - was the factory error barrel' done on the 25-5 or just on the 25-2. On the 25-2 I can find pictures etc. I have not seen one picture or found anyone yet that can tell me there is another like this 25-5 in 45 Colt caliber out there, that according to the owner came from the factory.

 

[fyrwokr]

Nice pics! Why does the barrel look so slender at the muzzle?

I don't know, maybe it is just the angle of the camera.
Thanks,
Dan

 

[Photog]

I think it is a rebarrel. That is a 1950 tapered barrel (look at photo of muzzle). The rear of the barrel was longer for use on the cylinder length of the 45 ACP or 44 special cartridges, where as the 25-5 used the same cylinder length as the M29. I have never heard anyone say any thing about a 25-5 having a 1950 barrel, only 25-2, with the standard size 1955 barrel being marked Model of 1950. I would get a letter on this one and bet it was a rebarrel at some time.

 

[JayCeeNC]

The mis-marked barrels occurred on the Model 25-2. I have one, serial# N 338239. All of the mismarked serial numbers are in that range.
The narrow rib on your barrel indicates it's probably a genuine Model of 1950 barrel, not a later mismarked one.

 

[Art Doc]

Well, there you go. Some us jumped without thinking. A modified gun with an older barrel. The owner likely preferred the tapered 1950 barrel as it's lighter than the heavy 1955 barrel.

 

[Allen-frame]

This gun is definitely an early model 25-5 chambered in 45 Colt .

But with a 1950 target barrel installed.
This would be a ambitous undertaking as the barrel would have to be machined from the back end and the forcing cone re-cut.

IF this came from the factory this way only a factory letter would tell.

I have a model 28-2 converted to 45 Colt by John Gallagher using a
model of 1950 barrel. It's an exceptional shooter.

fyrwokr ,, if your customer bought the gun ' new' in 1989
it would have to had been sitting for 10 years as the serial number
dates the gun to about 1978 -1979.

Maybe gun=Doc who worked at B&B sales at the time did the work.

One never knows.

The ultimate question is; How does it shoot.??
If it don't shoot it aint' nothin but a fancy paperweight.

Good luck with it all.

Allen Frame

 

[fyrwokr]

Thanks for all the responses.
I am trying to get the owner to just letter it and solve this question.
Will post again when we know more.
Again thanks for the help.

 

[Doc44]

The barrel probably dates to sometime in the 1950s as the 1950 Target 45 was discontinued in 1962. Certainly is an interesting revolver!

Bill

 

[sneakerd]

1000 to 1500 factory errors with the barrel rollstamped 1950 occurred in 1976 on 25-2s.. I'm itching for one.

 

[Pizza Bob]

Allen-frame has pretty much hit the nail on the head. The only thing I'd add is that in the one photo it looks like frame damage high up in the cylinder window that was, most likely, caused by the barrel change. The trigger was also changed as was the rear sight blade. The speedloader relieved grips came into being in 1981 and the date stamp on the grip shown may read 1989 - not 1979, the digit before the "9" is indistinguishable. The serial number is a very early 25-5. I had one of the first available in my neck of the woods and the serial number was 21K higher than the one pictured. Maybe the barrel was changed in pursuit of trying to get it to shoot well - we all know now, that the real culprit was oversize cylinder throats (mine ran .456 to .458) and if the cylinder wasn't changed at the time of the other work, chances are this one still is a poor performer, which may explain the lack of wear on the recoil shield.

Not sure how much a factory letter would reveal but I do bet it would show that it wasn't shipped to B&B Sales.

Good luck, but I think this is a much cobbled-up 25-5 - although cobbled in a nice way, just most likely ineffectively.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

 

[keithherrington]

The easy way

The easiest way to determine if it is a rebarrel is with a picture looking straight down on the barrel rib where it joins the frame. The frame on narrow rib guns (e.g., Model 28s and 27s) is markedly different from the frame contour of the wide rib guns such as the Models 57 and 29. The frame could have been recontoured but it is difficult to accurately match the factory original.
Keith

 

[murphydog]

Guys, the OP got his answer 2+ years ago

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

 

[Pizza Bob]

OMG....necrothread. Silly us!

 

[nyeti]

I know this is a necro-post, but it is very related. I just bought one of these as well. Different gun and serial number and it has the more modern style of ramp front sight. It also has less pronounced frame damage in the window. What is interesting is that everyone who has looked at it....including the well respected SWCA member I brought to the shop with me have said the barrel pinning and install looks factory.

I need to get it lettered, but it have a theory that these were either "warrantied" due to accuracy issues, or built at a warranty station. Cheshire Perez in SoCal was the Smith warranty station. As an old SoCal cop and also industry guy I know hat they did a majority of the LE guns that had issues and were like a mini factory. They would have access to the parts and equipment to do this in the manner they were done in which they look like they left Smith & Wesson in this configuration. They could have also been built for a dealer like B&B as a special configuration by a distributer with the capabilities of Cheshire & Perez.

I won't be able to get it to the range for a week or two to see how it shoots. What I do know is the balance is great and I am normally not a fan of barrels longer than 5". My agency used .45 Colt model 25's, and I carried one for many years as my duty gun, so this thing simply fits my love of the 25-5. I still need to find a Jovino snub. We also did not notice the throat issues. Our reloads for practice were so bad and dirty it would have been hard to tell if there was an issue. When we shot for score most would use our Federal duty loads, or my favorite, the Winchester 225gr. Silvertip. All of these tended to shoot well.

Hopefully, I ll be able to get to the bottom of these mystery 1950 Target Barrel model 25-5's.