What's with this 25-2 4"?

[4BODIDDLEY]

I have this 25-2 and have questions regarding the configuration. The serial number is N459XXX which dates it in the 77-78 timeline. The cylinder is 45 ACP. As you can see, the 4" barrel is marked 45 Colt Ctg with a partridge sight. The catalog is somewhat confusing to me. I have a 25-5 4" and it has sight with red insert.
So what's going on? Has the frame been re-barreled? How does the partridge come into play? The sight is integral to the barrel and the lettering is centered on both sides so I don't believe it's been cut.
Ask me questions if I can provide info to help explain please. Also, what may the value be on this set up?
Thanks experts!

 

[Muley Gil]

You have a M25-2 that has been fitted with a M25-5 barrel. The .45 Colt barrel has probably set-back a bit, due to the shorter barrel shank. And the Baughman red ramp front sight has been replaced with a Patridge, named after the designer. It is pinned to the base.

A partridge is a bird.

 

[Engine49guy]

Barrel definately looks to have been shortened.

 

[StrawHat]

A letter will seal the deal but I agree with Gil, a Model 25-2 with a 4” barrel from a Model 25-5.

A desirable barel length but the factory made very few of them in the Model 1950 or Model 1955.

Kevin

 

[Hawg Rider]

Very interesting, and confusing at the same time! It looks to me like a legitimate 4" .45 Colt barrel with a Patridge sight. According to the SCSW 4th Ed., there were some early .45 Colts produced, but these were rare and would be earlier than your 25-2. When your 25-2 was manufactured there were also a few other Model 25s produced in 1977 (25-3 .45 Colt Anniversary Edition and 25-4 .45 Colt Deluxe Anniversary Edition) with shorter cylinders than the 25-5 (1978). .45 ACP cylinders are 1.53" and .45 Colt cylinders are 1.67". The red ramp front sight blade on the 4" .45 Colt barrel may have been replaced with a Patridge blade (it almost looks like a Model 26 but the barrel is not stamped that way), and then installed onto your 25-2. Special order or gunsmith?

 

[Hair Trigger]

My vote is that the barrel came off a M25-3 that was available in .45 Colt that had the short cylinder.

The Patridge sight aside, I carefully compared the barrel on this one to a like-sized picture of my 4" M25-5 and the placement of the roll stamps is the same in relation to the end of the extractor shroud, so it isn't a cut barrel. The only way the forcing cone could work would be to have come from a barrel made for the short cylinder, which the .45 Colt dash-3 had. If you took a long-cylinder barrel and mounted it, the FC would be too short; if you cut a longer barrel to fit, the roll stamps would be centered over the end of the extractor shroud rather than even with the end. Shortening a 4" barrel with the FC for a .45 Colt enough to match up with the shorter cylinder would also require modifying the extractor rod for the slightly shorter shroud pocket.

I think that's a damn handsome revolver. Maybe the front sight was ordered that way on whatever gun it came off of.

The gun should date to mid-1978, my M27-2 shipped 2/22/78 and is N4479xx

 

[4BODIDDLEY]

Thanks for the responses so far. I've added a few pics to perhaps provide additional info. The top pic is the 25-5, truly a 45 Colt and obviously the other is the 25-2.
I measured the cylinder to confirm acp and of course it is. I don't question the barrel is probably not original to the gun. However, I also do not believe it's been cut down. I've read many older posts on the forum and it seems using a 25-5 barrel was not a rare thing to do for someone wanting a 4" acp. Could it be a special order? I don't know but I wouldn't bet on it.
And then there's the question with the front sights. I've added close ups to provide a better view.
This all started because I wanted at least one each of 4" 4X caliber Smiths: 41,44,45acp,45Colt. Would someone please advise a value to the -2. I just want to know if I overpaid or not. It did come with the case and tools. Thanks

 

[murphydog]

Thanks for the responses so far. I've added a few pics to perhaps provide additional info. The top pic is the 25-5, truly a 45 Colt and obviously the other is the 25-2.
I measured the cylinder to confirm acp and of course it is. I don't question the barrel is probably not original to the gun. However, I also do not believe it's been cut down. I've read many older posts on the forum and it seems using a 25-5 barrel was not a rare thing to do for someone wanting a 4" acp. Could it be a special order? I don't know but I wouldn't bet on it.
And then there's the question with the front sights. I've added close ups to provide a better view.
This all started because I wanted at least one each of 4" 4X caliber Smiths: 41, 44, 45 acp, 45 Colt. Would someone please advise a value to the -2. I just want to know if I overpaid or not. It did come with the case and tools. Thanks

The visible front sight pins would not have been typical of factory work. I agree it is likely a very well-done aftermarket conversion. Enjoy!

 

[series guy]

The sight pins may just be more visible due to digital photography. A factory letter will clear up any questions. Good chance it’s original.

 

[StrawHat]

…I carefully compared the barrel on this one to a like-sized picture of my 4" M25-5 and the placement of the roll stamps is the same in relation to the end of the extractor shroud, so it isn't a cut barrel. The only way the forcing cone could work would be to have come from a barrel made for the short cylinder, which the .45 Colt dash-3 had. If you took a long-cylinder barrel and mounted it, the FC would be too short; if you cut a longer barrel to fit, the roll stamps would be centered over the end of the extractor shroud rather than even with the end. Shortening a 4" barrel with the FC for a .45 Colt enough to match up with the shorter cylinder would also require modifying the extractor rod for the slightly shorter shroud pocket.
…

Barrel stampings have varied quite a bit depending on the machinist and how he set up the dies. There were guidelines but, as with all things S&W, nothing was carved in stone.

The extractor rod is not hard to shorten.

Kevin

 

[steelslaver]

It looks to me like the knurled tip of the rod is short. Taking enough material off the back shoulder of the barrel enough for 4 more turns would give you .1111 more barrel extension.

You could tell for sure by removing the barrel as there would be 2 relief cuts for the pin. One in the original position and another for it in new location

I did basically the same thing in order to mount this model 53 barrel on a model 18 as the model 53 runs a longer cylinder than any K22

Imgur: The magic of the Internet

 

[series guy]

Excellent observation on the ejector rod knurl.

 

[Hair Trigger]

Does this help any?

 

[steelslaver]

Not only is the knurled portion shorter it is sitting way closer to the end of the slot.

Use a set of calipers to measure from the lug pin to face of frame on both the 25-2 colt and the regular 25-5. Bet the -2 Colt gun is over .1 shorter