Model 3 American?

[BC38]

Interesting gun at one of my favorite LGS's
Price seems high to me, but I really don't know much about these older ones, except a couple of places to check for matching SN's
Cool old gun...

 

[Masterpiece]

Price seems high to me, but I really don't know much about these older ones, except a couple of places to check for matching SN's

BC38,

First of all your LGS needs a bit of history lesson identifying these Early Lg-Frame Top-Break Model 3 S&Ws...Ha!!-Ha!! Reason being...In reality it's a NM#3 Revolver...Not a 2nd Model American!!

He did get it's Chambering "Part" right though...It is chambered for a .44 S&W...Just not a .44 American...It's chambered for .44 Russian...Or as its also known a .44 S&W CTG!!

And yes...Given it's condition...You are correct in assuming it's a bit on the pricey side!! Although it does have somewhat of an upside to it all...It's a Matching Number (Japanese Contract Variation NM#3) included in a shipment of 833 NM#3s by Takata & Co. to Yokohama,Japan on Oct.4,1890!! Hope all this was of some help!!

 

[BC38]

Interesting. So this would be a "new" model 3 Russian, built and sold by S&W (along with 832 others just like it) to fulfill a purchase contract by a Japanese company? I'm guessing you derived all of that info from the serial number?

 

[Masterpiece]

So this would be a "new" model 3 Russian, built and sold by S&W (along with 832 others just like it) to fulfill a purchase contract by a Japanese company? I'm guessing you derived all of that info from the serial number?

BC38,

No...Not a "New" Model 3 Russian...Actually this model's designation is generally referred to as a NM#3 Single-Action...Where the "Russian" part falls in there is many of that model were chambered for the .44 S&W Russian Cartridge!!

As an aside...Just so you know...S&W didn't build these specifically for Japanese Contracts...They were Revolvers S&W already had in inventory that Japanese Contractors purchased!! Fact is...Nearly 1/3 of the Total Production of NM#3s were shipped to Japan...Thought you may have interest in knowing that!! Any other questions...Feel free to ask!!

 

[BC38]

BC38,

No...Not a "New" Model 3 Russian...Actually this model's designation is generally referred to as a NM#3 Single-Action...Where the "Russian" part falls in there is many of that model were chambered for the .44 S&W Russian Cartridge!!

As an aside...Just so you know...S&W didn't build these specifically for Japanese Contracts...They were Revolvers S&W already had in inventory that Japanese Contractors purchased!! Fact is...Nearly 1/3 of the Total Production of NM#3s were shipped to Japan...Thought you may have interest in knowing that!! Any other questions...Feel free to ask!!

OK, you refer to this one as a "NM#3" - I interpreted/guessed that meant "New Model #3" - but obviously that is incorrect.
So then what does the nomenclature "NM#3" mean?

So if I am understanding you, this one IS chambered for the 44 S&W - which is also referred to as the 44 Russian cartridge? But yet that doesn't make this revolver a "44 Russian"?
I'm confused...

 

[iby]

There were earlier models produced that are referred to as Russian Models (1st,2nd, 3rd)
They are different from the NM#3. The price does seem high for the condition IMO

 

[BC38]

There were earlier models produced that are referred to as Russian Models (1st,2nd, 3rd)
They are different from the NM#3. The price does seem high for the condition IMO

I appreciate your input, especially in regards to the asking price vs. condition - but the info you provided doesn't seem to address the other questions I posted.

Specifically, What does the "NM #3" nomenclature actually MEAN? What does the collector designation "NM" part of that label stand for? From previous replies it is obvious that my best guess - that NM, is shorthand for "New Model" - was incorrect.

So please enlighten those of us who aren't "in the know" - but who are trying to learn - what the "NM" part of "NM#3" means.

Thanks in advance.

 

[iby]

nomenclature

New Model 3.... in the case of the subject revolver.. Cal 44 Russian.
The New Model 3 was made in many chamberings from 1878
thru the early 1900's

 

[Boulder350]

New Model #3. It does have a worn anchor on the bottom of the grip next to the serial number from the Japanese military

 

[BC38]

OK, so if I am understanding all of the info posted by our forum experts, this IS a "New Model # 3" - and it is chambered in .44 S&W / .44 Russian, and it is one of 833 units ordered and sold to the Japanese firm Takata & Co. in 1890 for use by the Japanese Navy?
And at an asking price of $2,380, based on it's apparent condition, it is a bit over-priced.
Am I missing or misunderstanding anything?

 

[Wiregrassguy]

S&W shipped 8,754 New Model #3's to Takata & Co in addition to 800 or more they shipped to other Japanese companies. Most went to the Japanese Navy. WRT the gun in the OP:

- All of 27018-27300 and 27380-27475 and most of 27480-
27575, shipped to Takata, Jan/31/1891

Standard Catalog of S&W, 4th Edition

 

[iby]

OK, so if I am understanding all of the info posted by our forum experts, this IS a "New Model # 3" - and it is chambered in .44 S&W / .44 Russian, and it is one of 833 units ordered and sold to the Japanese firm Takata & Co. in 1890 for use by the Japanese Navy?
And at an asking price of $2,380, based on it's apparent condition, it is a bit over-priced.
Am I missing or misunderstanding anything?

Well,
My old eyes see $2850 on them tag and..
If you are still unclear get a book

 

[BC38]

Well,
My old eyes see $2850 on them tag and..
If you are still unclear get a book

I believe you are correct. I must have misread it as $2380 - but it does look more like $2850 when I zoom in on the tag in the photo.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and info.
I certainly could just "get a book" - but then we wouldn't be having this interesting conversation.

 

[Masterpiece]

All of 27018-27300 and 27380-27475 and most of 27480-
27575, shipped to Takata, Jan/31/1891
Standard Catalog of S&W, 4th Edition

Wiregrassguy & Others Having Interest,

Just to clear up a bit of confusion concerning the above Quote in the Standard Catalog of S&W...It has come to light that prior to the 4th Printing of the Standard Catalog of S&W this Jan.31,1891 Shipment was a "Previously Unknown Shipment" found some time back & some of the Revolvers noted in that Quote as being shipped Jan.31,1891 are from the Oct.4,1890 Shipment!!

Basically they should have listed the Serial Number Ranges (27018-27300 and 27380-27475) separately as not to mislead anyone some of those Revolvers shipped Jan.31,1891!!

 

[BC38]

BTW, the red tag at this particular shop means it is a consignment gun.
So that $2850 price may be negotiable - depending on the person consigning it and how long it sits there.
I stop by this shop every couple of weeks and this one wasn't there last time, so it has been in their case for no more than a couple of weeks at this point.
So if anyone is interested, send me a PM and I can get you the contact info for the LGS.

 

[sspierce8]

How much would a US contract model be worth with matching numbers?

 

[Inusuit]

As usual, I am appreciative of and somewhat amazed by the detailed knowledge displayed by members of this forum.

 

[BC38]

Well, FWIW, I stopped by the LGS today and the old girl was still there in the case.
I talked with the employee behind the counter and brought him up to speed on what the forum experts here have shared.

That it is a New Model # 3 - not an "American" - or a Model 2.
That it is chambered in 44 S&W - a.k.a 44 Russian - not in 44/100 as an American would be.
That its serial number places it in a large shipment of roughly 8800 revolvers sold to Takata & Co. for the Japanese Military in 1890-1891.

I told the counter guy that I thought the consignee's asking price of $2850 was very "optimistic" and that I would like to make him an offer of $2350 - $500 less than that asking price.

So I guess we'll see what the consignee has to say to that offer. I doubt that he will accept the offer, but at least by making the offer I'll get a "feel" for what he *thinks* its really worth...

 

[mmaher94087]

I bet that if you delt directly with the consigner, he would be receptive to the offer. But since the GS will take its cut the consigner may balk as he would receive a lessor amount.

 

[BC38]

I bet that if you dealt directly with the consigner, he would be receptive to the offer. But since the GS will take its cut the consigner may balk as he would receive a lessor amount.

That may be. I guess we will see.