Model 36 continuing problems

[steelslaver]

Thank you for checking the functions as I asked. I am sure your problem is in either the ejector rod or its center pin. With fired cases in the chamber place rod in drill chuck and tighten BY hand hold cylinder and chuck and unscrew. Your is early enough to be right hand thread. Once removed check for burrs and straight. If crooked either piece will wobble when in a drill.

 

[opos]

Thank you for checking the functions as I asked. I am sure your problem is in either the ejector rod or its center pin. With fired cases in the chamber place rod in drill chuck and tighten BY hand hold cylinder and chuck and unscrew. Your is early enough to be right hand thread. Once removed check for burrs and straight. If crooked either piece will wobble when in a drill.

Thanks...ok I took the rod and pin and hand tightened each in the drill chuck...I even laid the pieces along a stainless ruler to check for any run out..turning by hand there is no runout at all ...both pieces look nice and straight..

I do have one question..the 2 springs that fit over the pin...one is for the locking lug (front) and the one larger spring is for the extractor....the front spring fits against a small raised collar on the pin..the larger spring does not have any "keeper" so it just rides along inside the rod...is there supposed to be any kind of a keeper between the 2 springs that holds that spring in place? I don't think it's binding but just wondered. I may take some steel wool with some oil and just "buff" the pin in case there is something I don't see or feel...

I have checked everything for "plumb" that I can find or think of..The thing that sort of throw me is that the latch function is always hard to work..but sometimes after opening and closing the cylinder it's so bad it's almost impossible...I have to cock and release (not dry fire) the hammer and sort of wiggle the cylinder...that will normally make it so that I can get the cylinder open (still really difficult)

I did come across one thing while doing all the evaluating here today...the flat latch has it's own "issues"...if I lay my thumb on the flat latch and try to just slide it forward it's either impossible or near impossible to move it....I found that if I put my thumb behind the latch and press on the back edge of the latch it is more predictable and while difficult it is some easier...it will open each time doing that and not always open if I place my thumb on the latch and press forward..I took the padded handle on my needle nose pliers (they have the rubber sheath on the grips) and if I place the one side of the padded grip behind the latch it opens every time...and the latching and unlatching is much less difficult...by the same respect if I take that padded plier handle and try and push the flat latch forward by placing it on the latch as a person would place their thumb on the latch and it won't work most of the time...much of the time the only "sure way" to get the cylinder to release and open is to push "behind" the latch piece

I'm figuring to call Smith on Monday and see if they will let me send it back to them...I'm sure it's something minor like a burr or bit of extra end shake but it's beyond me and apparently beyond the best of the gunsmiths here....

 

[steelslaver]

Sometimes things like this take a bit of time to investigate and don't always show up. I would polish the center rod make sure it moves easily in extractor. There should be a little cooler for bigger spring. Disassembling latch and checking it for burrs would be easy. Check Numerich arms web site) for an exploded view (schematic)

 

[opos]

Sometimes things like this take a bit of time to investigate and don't always show up. I would polish the center rod make sure it moves easily in extractor. There should be a little cooler for bigger spring. Disassembling latch and checking it for burrs would be easy. Check Numerich arms web site) for an exploded view (schematic)

Many thanks....the reason I thought there might be a collar was from a look at the Numerich site earlier today...it shows a collar but there is nothing listed on the parts sheet...I looked at a you tube and it does not show the collar so it might be the age of the beast..

I tried "one thing at a time" and think I've narrowed the problem down...I disassembled the crane and the extractor rod and put it back together with no springs inside..I carefully re installed it in the gun and the latch works perfectly....I took the small spring that is on the front of the pin in the rod and put it in place and reinstalled it in the gun and I was back to the same problem...I removed the small spring and installed the large spring that works the extractor star and put it back togther and it worked perfectly....I can only assume (hate that word) that the problem lies with the small spring that moves the pin forward into the lug to latch and unlatch the crane and cylinder...since I'd already had the neighbor clean up the end of the rod and take a few thousandths off and it seems to clear really well...I think someone might have replaced the small spring with one that is stronger...I have a huge box of magneto parts including a box of small wire springs in the garage...tomorrow I'll bring the springs in and see if there might be one that is similar but perhaps a bit weaker...the thing is that there seems to be no binding or scraping or rubbing as I went through the spring testing until I go to the small spring and the latching got back to really difficult...

Thanks to every one that has weighed in on this....I'm learning a lot and should it not be something I can fix then Smith will get a call on Monday...

Again I apprciate all the comments and help.

 

[steelslaver]

Should be able to order a new spring for a 3" J frame

 

[model3sw]

IIRC a common problem on revovlers from the 50s and early 60's (which was fixed with a revision number) the factory used to tighten the extractor rod CLOCKWISE. Sometimes it takes YEARS before the rod starts to loosen up just from normal use of the revolver, thereby, UNSCREWING the extractor rod.

THIS causes the exact problem you have and had happened to me on a M36 and a M14.

I bought the proper tools from Brownells that gunsmiths use to remove and install the extractor rod without damagine the checkering pattern at the front of it. Sometimes you'll catch an older revolver that has pliers marks of on the checkering of the extractor rod. THIS IS WHY.

People who did not want to pay a gunsmith or buy the tool just took a pliers or a vise grip to screw the rod tighter.

The factory revision to fix this was to have the extractor rod screw in to tighten COUNTER CLOCKWISE.

Take a look in SCSW for revisions on any revolver number and you'll see at a certain revision the extractor rod threads were changed from tightening in a clockwise direction to tightening in a counter-clockwise direction. to prevent this from happening.

see here: EXTRACTOR ROD TOOL FOR S&W | Brownells