Model 36 timing off -- repair procedure?

[tguil]

My local gunsmith, a very good one, has replaced the cylinder in my Model 36 with a slightly used one in excellent condition. The timing is off a bit. He said he needs a new hand and extractor to remedy the situation. I told him to go ahead. I bought this gun new in 1983 and it is 98% so there is some sentimental attachment. He said the timing was off with the original cylinder that he replaced (bulged cylinder chamber). So much for early 80's S&W's. http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-smithing/203670-model-36-cylinder-replacement.html

I understand the need for a new hand, but why would he need a new extractor?

The smith said that he should be able to locate the parts OK. So far I have $120 in this repair including the purchase of the replacement cylinder. The gun "looks" as good as new.

Now for those of you that a have a lot of time on your hands.....What exactly is involved in this repair? Just curious about how he will do it.

 

[chief38]

I would think that an oversize hand would remedy the problem unless the ratchets are worn beyond where they will work even with a new hand.That might be the reason he is saying both will need to be replaced. Without actually having the gun here I can not know for sure. If he is a well qualified Smith and you trust him you just have to go with what he says.

After he replaces the parts fitting is required so that the hand turns the cylinder so that it locks up prior to hammer release. This has to be done on all 5 chambers and he has to file them or stone them so they don't over rotate, but just so they are perfect. I have done this myself on a Chief's and it took me a few hours....... a pain in the butt.

Chief38

 

[tguil]

Thanks, Chief 38.

Since messing up one of my favorite guns, I've learned more about S&W's than I really need to know.

I've waited three weeks for my smith get back to me on the cylinder installation. I'm betting that I'll be waiting another month to get the gun back. He is a very busy guy....also a perfectionist.

I wonder where in the heck he will find an extractor. S&W doesn't have them. Neither my gun nor the replacement cylinder show much wear. I would think that one of the extractors would be OK...but what do I know.

Tom

 

[hotrod150]

I'm no gunsmith, and don't know the extent of the damage, but I'm surprised that he wants to fit a new extractor. From my reading, it sounds like installing the old extractor is a good way to minimize fitting when installing a new cylinder. The extractor star, hand, etc are already all fitted to each other so as long as the new cylinder has the chambers & cylinder stip notches properly indexed to the keyway in the extractor hole it should be good to go? However, like I said, I'm no gunsmith and while I have stripped my j-frames down to parts (incl removing the extractor from the cylinder), I have never fitted any replacement parts. And to tell the truth, fitting these parts not something I'd feel confident doing myself.

 

[judge]

Sir - If you need a new extractor, .38 special, 5 shot, we have them. Blue steel, not MIM. Price is $37.00 delivered. Thanks - Judge (e/mail - [email protected]) 24 hour shipping

 

[july1952]

Hey tquil,
Have you seen this:
Gunsmithing - How to Repair Slow Timing on a S&W Revolver - YouTube
I don't know why a new extraxctor rod would be needed. It may be the star end of the extractor is buggered up but without seeing it, I'm just guessing.

 

[tguil]

Finally got my Model 36 back from the smith....after four months. He installed an oversized hand but didn't need to install a new extractor. He said that it took a couple of hours to get it timed correctly. It's now nice and tight and shoots "better than new". He smoothed things up a bit while doing the repair. Thanks for the advice.

Never again an "accidental" +p round.

Tom

 

[smokey04]

I'm sorry,but I'm having a hard time understanding a "one time" bulging of a steel chamber on a mod. 36. Am I missing something here or is there more to the story than is being told? I'm drawing no conclusions but this doesn't seem right. Nick

 

[cjw3]

"accidental" +p round"

Care to enlighten us so we can all learn something?

Glad to hear you got it fixed, by the way.

 

[Nevada Ed]

+P ammo can be tempermental with hand loads......
I shoot a M49 and have had some +P loads have as much as a ..........

+/- 169 fps ES on a load or two.

even +/- 367 fps ES in a .357 magnum.

I can see where a cylinder hole can get a little bent out of place if things don't go right , with a few loads.

 

[tguil]

"accidental" +p round"

Care to enlighten us so we can all learn something?

Glad to hear you got it fixed, by the way.

I've posted quite a bit about this over the past year and a half. I accidentally loaded factory Winchester 158 grain semi-wadcutter +P rounds into my Model 36. The first round I fired slightly bulged one of the cylinder chambers. The bulge was only bad enough that it would not allow spent cartridges to extract. Maybe it shouldn't have, but it sure did. Again,this was a factory load. I don't reload or buy reloaded ammunition. As an aside, I can see no real reason to run hot loads through any "j" frame even for self defense...a minority opinion for sure.

Thanks again to the many forum members that walked me through the repair process.

Tom

 

[cjw3]

I've posted quite a bit about this over the past year and a half. I accidentally loaded factory Winchester 158 grain semi-wadcutter +P rounds into my Model 36. The first round I fired slightly bulged one of the cylinder chambers. The bulge was only bad enough that it would not allow spent cartridges to extract. Maybe it shouldn't have, but it sure did. Again,this was a factory load. I don't reload or buy reloaded ammunition. As an aside, I can see no real reason to run hot loads through any "j" frame even for self defense...a minority opinion for sure.

Thanks again to the many forum members that walked me through the repair process.

Tom

I sent you a PM; had a couple of questions. Thanks. John

 

[shawn mccarver]

My local gunsmith, a very good one, has replaced the cylinder in my Model 36 with a slightly used one in excellent condition. The timing is off a bit. He said he needs a new hand and extractor to remedy the situation. I told him to go ahead. I bought this gun new in 1983 and it is 98% so there is some sentimental attachment. He said the timing was off with the original cylinder that he replaced (bulged cylinder chamber). So much for early 80's S&W's. http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-smithing/203670-model-36-cylinder-replacement.html

I understand the need for a new hand, but why would he need a new extractor?

The smith said that he should be able to locate the parts OK. So far I have $120 in this repair including the purchase of the replacement cylinder. The gun "looks" as good as new.

Now for those of you that a have a lot of time on your hands.....What exactly is involved in this repair? Just curious about how he will do it.

S&W Model 36 timing off - repair procedure:

1. Prepare letter with make, model, serial number, and description of problem. Be sure to give your name, phone number, shipping address, email address and credit card number for payment.

2. Box up gun, taking care to include item 1, the letter.

3. Drive to Fed Ex or UPS and fill out papers, pay for shipping, insurance, etc. for overnight air.

4. Wait.

5. Receive back your revolver from S&W in perfect working condition, most likely with other work done for free, to bring revolver up to "as new" mechanical condition.

6. Be happy you did not butcher your own revolver or let the local 'smith butcher it for you.

 

[chief38]

tquil:

Just a note here............

If a Factory Winchester 158 grain +P bulged your M36 Chamber there is something drastically wrong with the metallurgy on that gun IMHO. Smith & Wesson engineers a margin of safety into their firearms and there is always more strength built in then the actual load it is intended to fire has. I have done lots of bullet testing and chronographing and I can tell you first hand that the Winchester Factory (FBI LOAD) is NOT ALL THAT HOT! Out of my 2" Chief's Special it won't even break 800 fps. and the CU of pressure is well under the SAMMI max. If that load did damage the cylinder I would request that it be replaced by the Factory with a proper one.

I am sure that there are hundreds of fellas right here on the Forum that will attest the fact that their Chief's Specials have fired plenty of FBI loads with no ill effect and even Smith themselves has put in writing that it is OK to fire limited amounts of +P even through earlier J frame guns. Their later models starting with the 60-7 and the 36-7 are specifically heat treated for +P's, but a light occasional firing of +P loads should certainly NOT harm a M36. Are you sure the load you fired was not over-charged? Does not happen often, but it HAS happened to me once with a Remington FBI load. Thankfully I was shooting an L frame at he time so no harm done to the gun, but I did get a face full and the case came apart. I sent it off to Remington. the next day and they were very embarrassed. They sent me all kinds of stuff including vouchers for free ammo - offered to pay to have Smith & Wesson go over the gun, and pay any Dr. bills I incurred.

Not trying to make you feel bad here, just saying that a Factory +P Winchester (FBI LOAD) should not do that to a Smith- - not even a Chief's. Are you sure it wasn't a +P+ I have shot Buffalo Bore ammo from my Chief's and while I would NOT over use them, my guns are fine and I can certainly tell you that the BB ammo is WAY HOTTER than any Winchester FBI load.

Chief38

 

[iwanna]

I've posted quite a bit about this over the past year and a half. I accidentally loaded factory Winchester 158 grain semi-wadcutter +P rounds into my Model 36. The first round I fired slightly bulged one of the cylinder chambers. The bulge was only bad enough that it would not allow spent cartridges to extract. Maybe it shouldn't have, but it sure did. Again,this was a factory load. I don't reload or buy reloaded ammunition. As an aside, I can see no real reason to run hot loads through any "j" frame even for self defense...a minority opinion for sure.

Thanks again to the many forum members that walked me through the repair process.

Tom

Make it a minority of two. I would never run +P through a J-frame. I understand it should be okay, but I wouldn't do it. It's just personal preference. I'm not a "big punch" guy in the first place. In fact, I tend to go the opposite. I seldom shoot magnums. I own no magnum rifles except .22 mag. Seldom shoot magnum shotguns. I like .32 acp and consider it "adequate" for defense. Again, just personal preference, but I've always been that way.

 

[tguil]

In response to a couple of posts.

S&W would not warranty or even repair my Model 36. They only warranty guns made in 1989 or after. They did not have a cylinder available for a repair "on my dime". The gun is "obsolete".

The smith who worked on my gun has had many years of experience repairing S&W guns and has a very good reputation.

I got out the box of ammunition I used: Winchester-Western SuperX 38 Special 158 gr. Semi-Wad Cutter +p (X38WCP). I probably purchased this ammunition in the mid 1980's early 1990's.

A couple of other points. This is the second gun that my dealer ordered for me. He returned the first because he said it was only "good for a boat anchor". Also when the smith was working on the gun, he found that it was out of time and probably came that way from the factory. This gun has not been shot much...maybe a couple of hundred rounds of wadcutters and a few rounds of "snake shot". The original cylinder had only a slight turn ring.

Might want to check out this very negative article about S&W. The author specifically mentions "j" frame problems. The Dark Side of Smith & Wesson Please no flames. I am only posting it because of what he sees as "j' frame issues. I know that there are millions of "j" frames out there that have had no problems. I like S&W handguns a lot...like Rugers too

Whatever, my Model 36 fixed, is lookin' good and will spend most of its time in a desk drawer with only occasional outings where I will use wadcutters. (My carry gun is a recently purchased 442, a very nice gun but not as "classy" as the Model 36.)

Tom