Hello. This is my first post aside from an introduction. I'm eager to see any help you can offer.
Problem summary: 1980's model 41 frequently has light primer strikes and failures to fire (FTF). Often doesn't fully chamber cartridge. Suspect they're related.
Background: I have a S & W model 41 built in 1982 that I bought used in great condition in the mid 80's. I don't know how many rounds were fired by the prior owner nor what type of ammo they used. And I don't recall how many rounds I had fired when I stored it in the late 80's. I do recall that I almost exclusively used CCI #32 standard velocity (SV). I was careless about cleaning it and stored it dirty. However it was super precise and accurate based on my national match scores. And it was extremely reliable. If there were any failures at all, there weren't enough to have left an impression.
Problem detail: This summer (2018) I cleaned it and shot some of the 80's CCI rounds I still had. Several times there was a light primer strike and FTF. If I reseated the round it would fire. There was a heavy strike on these "retries" and on the rounds that fired normally. It still seems precise but I haven't put it on a rest yet.
Troubleshooting:
* Attributed the FTF to old ammo gone bad. I bought new CCI SV #35 labeled 1070 fps just as the old #32 was labeled. Tried a different lot of new CCI SV #35. Tried two lots of Aguila Super Extra SV. Same problem with all the new ammo as with the old. I noticed that slide appears to not have closed completely when FTF. Pulling back slide just before round is extracted and then releasing slide results in closed slide and fired round.
* Replaced the recoil spring and guide rod. That was useful because brass now falls a couple of feet from me instead of the other side of the range.
* Removed bolt assembly. Cleaned firing pin and inside of bolt. Did not remove extractor.
* Cleaned pistol as thoroughly as I know how multiple times during experiments. Inspected bore. Flashlight at muzzle shows sparkling bore except for a thin, dark ring about a casing's length in from the breech. Rifling appears to start at the ring. Toothpick rubbed down bore across ring does not catch on anything. Soaking bore in solvent and vigorous scrubbing does not remove ring. Any idea what the ring is?
* Cleaned bore. Held barrel vertically and dropped cartridges into chamber. Some fall until stopped by rim with a positive click. That seems correct behavior. Do you agree? Others stop anywhere from slightly short of the rim to half the length of the casing. Cleaned bore. Performed test for one box (50 rounds of new CCI SV). About six failed the "drop test." Opened second box of same lot. Almost all failed the drop test. Cleaned bore. Repeated with second box. Only a few failed the drop test. I've tried this test with both lots of new CCI SV, both lots of the Aguila SV, and 10 rounds of "Eley Prime Golden Eagle Target" that I was given.
* Have done drop test several times with the same ten rounds of Eley. I guess that any bullet coating that may be sticking to the bore would have worn off these 10 rounds by now. Do you agree?
* During a recent match, passed brush through bore prior to each 5 shot string. Got at least one FTF for most of the six strings.
* I have resisted using high velocity ammo based on advice that seems expert to me. Any contrary advice with rationale?
Measurements: I don't have confidence in the caliper I was using so I'll defer providing measurements. Is measuring the inside diameter of the chamber and outside diameter of some cartridges useful?
Observations:
* FTF occurs with both magazines I have (10 rounds)
* a clean bore briefly reduces the partial chambering behavior but does not eliminate it.
* the same CCI and Aguila ammo works fine with another pistol.
Hypotheses:
* rounds sometimes do not fully chamber --> some of the firing pin's energy is absorbed to chamber round --> light primer strike --> FTF.
* something happened to the chamber while sitting for 30+ years.
* yours?
Further tests:
* Please help!
---
Secondary problem infrequently observed during troubleshooting: When using either lot of Aguila SV but not CCI, the first round of five fires. The second round occasionally is not removed from magazine. I don't recall if the fired casing ejects. Racking the slide chambers the second round and behavior returns to "normal" (occasional FTF). I don't recall if it happened with only one of the two magazines. I plan to document with which magazine(s) this occurs. Any ideas on this one?
---
I plan to be at a range tomorrow (Tue) to try tests if you're kind enough to suggest some.
Thanks.
P.S. JH1951, you wrote "ask away with as much detail as you can give." How did I do with the detail?
Problem summary: 1980's model 41 frequently has light primer strikes and failures to fire (FTF). Often doesn't fully chamber cartridge. Suspect they're related.
Background: I have a S & W model 41 built in 1982 that I bought used in great condition in the mid 80's. I don't know how many rounds were fired by the prior owner nor what type of ammo they used. And I don't recall how many rounds I had fired when I stored it in the late 80's. I do recall that I almost exclusively used CCI #32 standard velocity (SV). I was careless about cleaning it and stored it dirty. However it was super precise and accurate based on my national match scores. And it was extremely reliable. If there were any failures at all, there weren't enough to have left an impression.
Problem detail: This summer (2018) I cleaned it and shot some of the 80's CCI rounds I still had. Several times there was a light primer strike and FTF. If I reseated the round it would fire. There was a heavy strike on these "retries" and on the rounds that fired normally. It still seems precise but I haven't put it on a rest yet.
Troubleshooting:
* Attributed the FTF to old ammo gone bad. I bought new CCI SV #35 labeled 1070 fps just as the old #32 was labeled. Tried a different lot of new CCI SV #35. Tried two lots of Aguila Super Extra SV. Same problem with all the new ammo as with the old. I noticed that slide appears to not have closed completely when FTF. Pulling back slide just before round is extracted and then releasing slide results in closed slide and fired round.
* Replaced the recoil spring and guide rod. That was useful because brass now falls a couple of feet from me instead of the other side of the range.
* Removed bolt assembly. Cleaned firing pin and inside of bolt. Did not remove extractor.
* Cleaned pistol as thoroughly as I know how multiple times during experiments. Inspected bore. Flashlight at muzzle shows sparkling bore except for a thin, dark ring about a casing's length in from the breech. Rifling appears to start at the ring. Toothpick rubbed down bore across ring does not catch on anything. Soaking bore in solvent and vigorous scrubbing does not remove ring. Any idea what the ring is?
* Cleaned bore. Held barrel vertically and dropped cartridges into chamber. Some fall until stopped by rim with a positive click. That seems correct behavior. Do you agree? Others stop anywhere from slightly short of the rim to half the length of the casing. Cleaned bore. Performed test for one box (50 rounds of new CCI SV). About six failed the "drop test." Opened second box of same lot. Almost all failed the drop test. Cleaned bore. Repeated with second box. Only a few failed the drop test. I've tried this test with both lots of new CCI SV, both lots of the Aguila SV, and 10 rounds of "Eley Prime Golden Eagle Target" that I was given.
* Have done drop test several times with the same ten rounds of Eley. I guess that any bullet coating that may be sticking to the bore would have worn off these 10 rounds by now. Do you agree?
* During a recent match, passed brush through bore prior to each 5 shot string. Got at least one FTF for most of the six strings.
* I have resisted using high velocity ammo based on advice that seems expert to me. Any contrary advice with rationale?
Measurements: I don't have confidence in the caliper I was using so I'll defer providing measurements. Is measuring the inside diameter of the chamber and outside diameter of some cartridges useful?
Observations:
* FTF occurs with both magazines I have (10 rounds)
* a clean bore briefly reduces the partial chambering behavior but does not eliminate it.
* the same CCI and Aguila ammo works fine with another pistol.
Hypotheses:
* rounds sometimes do not fully chamber --> some of the firing pin's energy is absorbed to chamber round --> light primer strike --> FTF.
* something happened to the chamber while sitting for 30+ years.
* yours?
Further tests:
* Please help!
---
Secondary problem infrequently observed during troubleshooting: When using either lot of Aguila SV but not CCI, the first round of five fires. The second round occasionally is not removed from magazine. I don't recall if the fired casing ejects. Racking the slide chambers the second round and behavior returns to "normal" (occasional FTF). I don't recall if it happened with only one of the two magazines. I plan to document with which magazine(s) this occurs. Any ideas on this one?
---
I plan to be at a range tomorrow (Tue) to try tests if you're kind enough to suggest some.
Thanks.
P.S. JH1951, you wrote "ask away with as much detail as you can give." How did I do with the detail?
