Model 52-2 hammer follow

[Sevens]

I also worry that you borked the frame... however, I'm still trying to think positive also and I just fished a 52 out of my safe. As I suspected -- the sear spring is very, very close to the rear of the magazine. There should obviously be no contact there but -IF- something were off with the sear spring... it's orientation or size, shape, position... the magazine and sear spring could make contact.

I am hoping there is some manner of interference there.

I have no solution, but I'm spitballin'.

 

[AJ]

I also worry that you borked the frame... however, I'm still trying to think positive also and I just fished a 52 out of my safe. As I suspected -- the sear spring is very, very close to the rear of the magazine. There should obviously be no contact there but -IF- something were off with the sear spring... it's orientation or size, shape, position... the magazine and sear spring could make contact.

I am hoping there is some manner of interference there.

I have no solution, but I'm spitballin'.

Sevens, I have never torn mine down to parade rest. Do you think the sear spring could put enough tension on the mag to freeze it in place?

 

[Sevens]

I seriously don't know much however I can damn sure see the entire length of the sear spring in my 52 when I pull the magazine out.

When all is well, certainly there is no contact and no interference. However, the sear spring is specifically what he changed in the pistol that is all locked up, so I'm just tossing that out there.

 

[RodJ]

The sear spring wasn't interfering, no unusual resistance until the back of the magazine contacted the block in which the disconnector sits. I tested with a piece of paper between the block and where the magazine should slide past. To be sure I tried the dykem. For some STUPID, out of body reason, I wanted to see if there were other interferences, so I kept pushing the mag in till it seated…. Seems now like the entire back side of the mag is friction fit.

Just a bizarre mystery.

I was going to try the heat method but (1) didn't think I could get much heat into the frame without quickly also heating the thin magazine, (2) didn't want to affect the bluing (just yet) and (3) am thinking that shrinkage is what I want (first time in my life I've EVER said that). Hence its in the freezer.

Btw, wife came home this evening and in a disapproving tone announced "Honey, there is a gun in the freezer". Me: "Yes. I ran out of room in the gun safe". Not one single hint of a smile much less a laugh.

 

[RodJ]

I seriously don't know much however I can damn sure see the entire length of the sear spring in my 52 when I pull the magazine out.

When all is well, certainly there is no contact and no interference. However, the sear spring is specifically what he changed in the pistol that is all locked up, so I'm just tossing that out there.

Sevens, thanks for your help. To clarify, I replaced the sear itself not the sear spring.

 

[AJ]

Don't part it out. Get somebody who really knows the 52 and let them look at it. Got to be a good S&W Model 52 smith out there somewhere.

 

[RodJ]

Don't part it out. Get somebody who really knows the 52 and let them look at it. Got to be a good S&W Model 52 smith out there somewhere.

You saw my post before I edited it!

Have no fear, it turns out that shrinkage is underrated!

Pulled the frame out of the "new" gun safe (garage freezer), clamped the very tip of end of a pair of standard vise grips to the magazine base, laid the frame on its side on my wooden bench, mag well hanging off the side, pressed down on a towel covering the frame (it was very, very chilly) and VOILA! The darn magazine slid right out.

"More in this developing story at 10pm. This is your Senior Garage Hack Reporter, Rod, reporting from Austin…."

 

[AJ]

Good for you!! There is something to be sai for shade tree mechanics! I am one…….

 

[RodJ]

DONK52, I completely forgot to respond to your question about what letter is stamped on the bottom of the magazine well. The letter is s a capital "U". Followed your instructions and eliminated the trigger setting as a sole problem.

I now have the pistol back together. The hammer no longer falls to half cock when racking the slide. The magazine "safety" prevents function of the trigger, but pressing on the sear against the sear spring releases the hammer to the fire position. All seems to be well in that regard. Whew!

However now that the frame and magazines are back at room temperature, the dang magazines again won't insert all the way. They make it past the magazine catch and then stop hard about 0.80" short of full insertion.

The best I can tell is this. The top back side of the magazine is scalloped, so that the top edge has a pair of pointed "ears" on each side. One magazine interferes with the transverse block in the frame (where the disconnector resides) on the left ear on the rear surface of the magazine. Another magazine that goes with the pistol has interference on the back side more centrally, just to the right side of the middle weld (I think it's a weld) seam. I chalk that different locations up to slight variances in the magazine dimensions… even so, I'm not even sure of that assumption!

Just bizarre.

One hypothesis is that this particular pistol, Serial No. A42xxxx, is a little known, highly sought after and rare, variant that was one of a limited number produced for a classified government procurement contract of Model 52's for a top secret special forces team operating in arctic climates. The tolerances are so close, that the pistols were only functional at or below zero degrees Fahrenheit. This prevented the possibility that, if a weapon were captured, the enemy would not be able to use it in above freezing temps. Brilliant thinking! My guess is that there is a SEAL Team code named "The Snow Seals".

Anyway, back to reality… I'm going to check the apparently abnormal interference against another Model 52 to see whether what I'm seeing on the back side is truly abnormal or whether I need to investigate further.

Sorry for the drama. Posting all this in the off chance it helps someone else.

 

[RodJ]

MYSTERY SOLVED! All working properly. Everything in the cosmos is related. And the answer can be found in this thread.

Son of a gun…. Will post the answer later in case someone wants to guess.

Thank you ALL!

 

[Sevens]

Wait WHAT?!

Problem is solved?

 

[RodJ]

It seems that the original problem and the magazine problem were related. Trigger stop screw lower. That little grub screw was too long.

Someone had set the trigger stop screw lower for virtually zero trigger overtravel. It had to be set for minimal over travel, because if set for any more over travel (I.e., deeper into the magazine well) the screw head protruded ever so slightly (a few thousands) into the mag well. That tiny protrusion was not enough to prevent magazine insertion, but it did tilt the magazine back a tiny fraction such that, as the magazine went further in, the effect was multiplied at the magazine lips in the rear. Those lips came in contact with the top of the frame and got wedged in tight. Imagine how if front and rear sights are just a thousand of an inch out of alignment, the bullet goes off course more and more as it travels.

So, that explains the magazine, and I think it also explains my complaint that the original sear looked to have been worked on by a monkey. He tips were a mess, almost chipped looking as best I could tell. I think that happened because the sear tips weren't completely clearing the half cock notch in the hammer. And the sear tips started getting banged up until there was so little "good" sear tip "meat" engaged in the hammer hooks, they started to slip off. Additional sear spring pressure helped, but it wasn't enough.

The new sear held just fine — Praise the Lord. But that new sear would have been destined for the same fate had the "trigger stop screw lower" been set the same.

Both problems were solved with the judicious use of a jeweler's file on the trigger guard side of the stop screw until it was short enough to allow proper functioning of the trigger / sear and not interfere with the magazine.

Wow. It all sounds so obvious looking back. It never occurred to me that the trigger stop screw lower would be too long.

But whew!! Can't wait to finally shoot this pistol and start screwing around (no pun intended) with the magazine feed lips. I'm guessing with my luck they will need some tuning. Lol!

Thanks for everyone's interest and all the help you provided. This is a tall group of people.

 

[Sevens]

I'm sooooo happy that it was something tangible (screw in an unexpected spot interfering where it never should!) rather than something out of reach like the suggested torquing or bending of the frame, which is HORRIFYING to even think about.

As for the magazines, here has been my experience. Let me repeat that I dunno much but I think I know what I think I know and I can also say that I actually did this! (and with extremely positive results.)

I think my count of 52 magazines is 12 or 13. It's taken me YEARS and cash to get here. And it's been my experience when you add one to your collection... those feed lips MIGHT not be ready for prime time but every single one I have ever gotten, I was able to make work properly and reliably and I did it with a very simple technique.

1) take a 52 magazine that you have fully vetted and you know works ALL THE TIME

2) measure the distance between the feed lips with a caliper and do this measurement in multiple places

3) use a pair of pliers with the jaws well protected with tape or the feed lips well protected with layers of cloth

4) the heat treating and strength of the metal is impressive... you obviously want to use less strength rather than more strength, but I found out right away that actually need to use a good volume of strength to make an input that works

Match up the dimensions and the magazine becomes a good working and completely reliable magazine.

As of yet, in thousands of rounds (admittedly very evenly distributed across the magazines...) when I have had to fix a magazine, I have only had to do it ONCE.

So if you have a magazine that is causing you grief, fear not!

 

[CALREB]

Thanks Sevens, thats good info. Here is some info someone might find useful in the future.
A couple weeks ago I was on Numrich site looking for something and decided to check what was available on model 52s. Unbelievably its showed magazines in stock (used). I have never had a bad experience with Numrich so decided to give it a try. I have 5 mags for mine but always wanted 6 ( 30 rounds).
Just never would pay current prices.
These mags were 85.00 so I entered 5 to see what happened, greedy but figured I could always get my money back at that price. Well they only had 2 so final cost ended up being 92.?? a piece. Mags were in great shape, plastic followers, hardly used but each had a small patch of light rust on one side. About the size of 1/2 a dime. Took it right off, added some cold blue a a bit of oil and as good as new.Both functioned dummy rounds fine but haven't been to the range yet. May need some of Sevens info, so thats good to know.
Anyway just to point out keep an eye open on Numrich. You never know what they will have at any given time. But you can bet good stuff doesn't last long there..

 

[RodJ]

Thanks guys. I have had two older High Standard .22's (still have one) and have found the pleasure of tuning magazine lips to be like the pleasure of a beautiful woman's company… except different.

Thanks to a lucky find, I have two 52's each with two magazines. Hopefully one will run. They seem to feed empty once-fired cases with the exception of the last round. Hopefully sized and roll crimped rounds will run fine in at least one magazine, so that I have a good example to match.

Btw, my followers are all metal. What color are the plastic followers?

 

[Sevens]

I chuckle a bit at the discussion of S&W 1-2-3rd Gens that will cycle empty brass. I'm not sure if it was S&W themselves that started this discussion but I am certain that many gunwriters loved to publish it all through the 80's and 90's. Many point out that guns do not need to cycle empty brass however a semiautomatic pistol that is wholly designed around a flush-loaded wadcutter round is absolutely gonna need to be able to cycle empty brass since the absolute shape of the ammo and the empty are dimensionally the same.

 

[Sevens]

The 52 magazine follower discussion BWAHAHAHA this is another conversation that I love too!

The old & grizzled will snap at ya if you talk about 52 mags and plastic followers being just as good as the old school metal followers. In my experience, they are just as good.

The energetic discussions we have had have led me to make my long standing offer that no single soul has ever actually even hinted at taking me up on:

If you are stuck with plastic follower magazines and it keeps you awake at night, I will trade 1-for-2 metal to plastic follower mags. You send me two 52 mags with plastic followers and I'll send you one metal follower 52 magazine for them.

Alas, nobody wants this deal. Maybe I should enhance the deal? Send me three plastic follower 52 mags and I'll send you two metal follower 52 mags.

PM works.

 

[AJ]

I chuckle a bit at the discussion of S&W 1-2-3rd Gens that will cycle empty brass. I'm not sure if it was S&W themselves that started this discussion but I am certain that many gunwriters loved to publish it all through the 80's and 90's. Many point out that guns do not need to cycle empty brass however a semiautomatic pistol that is wholly designed around a flush-loaded wadcutter round is absolutely gonna need to be able to cycle empty brass since the absolute shape of the ammo and the empty are dimensionally the same.

Back in the 1980's a M1911 that would feed an empty case was prized in some cases. I have two that will, and am happy with them.

 

[RodJ]

Somehow I suspected that there was a fulsome debate over plastic vs metal followers. Certainly didn't mean to start a new one! Lol

So to close out the pistol and the poor stuck magazine, I did some redneck calculations and adjustments. Put a shell case in it and another magazine and opened the lips in the back so the same amount of rim appeared above the lips. Then adjusted the front lips so they both had the same release tension, slipping a case in and out.

My old man had two boxes of factory 148 gr WC. with the hammer block safety on, and me wearing eyes and ears in the back bedroom / man cave, I cycled the rounds by hand and all is well. Whew!