Model 52

[willmckee]

bought a 52, because I'd never had one. cobbled together 35 rounds just to try it. freaking awesome sidearm, most fun thing to shoot I've encountered in a very long time. the loads I was shooting were 148 gr DEWC's with 2.7 gr Titegroup which was the starting load. worked great except they weren't powerful enough to extract far enough to eject so I had to use it as a manually operated repeater. I think if it'd been working as a semi-auto the groups would've been even smaller. the max load in the manual - I don't want to change powders- is 3.3 grains. I seldom fire max loads in anything. Any idea how much higher I'd have to go for complete cycling?

Roger

 

[Kp321]

52’s really respond to quality ammunition. Try some hollow base wadcutters rather than the double enders and your groups will shrink. I normally use 3.0 gr of 231 but have to bump it up to 3.2 gr in cold weather. I also use the same brand brass, RP in my case. I have not used Titegroup so can’t comment on your load.

 

[willmckee]

yeah, DEWC's were all i had on hand. all my HBWC's i'd used up in 38 spcl defense loads. i think i'd read elsewhere that HB's tend to greater accuracy.

i guess more basic question - if a load for 38 midrange target loads is max in a manual (hodgdon's in this case) can it be assumed to be a perfectly reasonable load in the 52?

 

[Sevens]

Well to directly answer the question:

if a load for 38 midrange target loads is max in a manual (hodgdon's in this case) can it be assumed to be a perfectly reasonable load in the 52?

I will say with confidence that this load isn’t going to beat up or otherwise stress a Model 52. A 52 is an extremely stout and all steel handgun, so this load isn’t going to hurt it.

Now me personally, I don’t think Titegroup is a good choice for this role. It’s a very high nitro powder and it burns scorching hot. Some folks have seen lead smearing from the heat it produces on the base of a lead bullet.

If it was all that I had and I couldn’t get a hold of another powder, I would definitely try it.

Now with that out of the way, there’s two different ways that Model 52 pistols get damaged most often.

1) running TOO light of a load and unknowingly sticking a bullet in the bore, and then firing another round after it. This is how you bulge a barrel and wreck the barrel

2) running to high a powder charge under the aforementioned hollow base Wadcutter — these bullets are somewhat fragile in that a “hot” load can blow out the center of a hollow based wadcutter and leave a full caliber ring of lead. This can also lead to a bulged barrel if you fire a round behind it.

The Titegroup and cast DEWC can work, but this legendary pistol was built specifically around a swaged HBWC with 2.7-2.8gr Bullseye. Many folks use W-231.

I use the swaged HBWC with 2.7gr Bullseye. And all the while I ignore the noisy ones who claim that Bullseye is “dirty.”



That’s a 25-yard target. It’s a bit over 2-inches but I’m not a competition shooter… just a guy who absolutely loves FINE handguns.

 

[cougar015]

Well to directly answer the question:


I will say with confidence that this load isn’t going to beat up or otherwise stress a Model 52. A 52 is an extremely stout and all steel handgun, so this load isn’t going to hurt it.

Now me personally, I don’t think Titegroup is a good choice for this role. It’s a very high nitro powder and it burns scorching hot. Some folks have seen lead smearing from the heat it produces on the base of a lead bullet.

If it was all that I had and I couldn’t get a hold of another powder, I would definitely try it.

Now with that out of the way, there’s two different ways that Model 52 pistols get damaged most often.

1) running TOO light of a load and unknowingly sticking a bullet in the bore, and then firing another round after it. This is how you bulge a barrel and wreck the barrel

2) running to high a powder charge under the aforementioned hollow base Wadcutter — these bullets are somewhat fragile in that a “hot” load can blow out the center of a hollow based wadcutter and leave a full caliber ring of lead. This can also lead to a bulged barrel if you fire a round behind it.

The Titegroup and cast DEWC can work, but this legendary pistol was built specifically around a swaged HBWC with 2.7-2.8gr Bullseye. Many folks use W-231.

I use the swaged HBWC with 2.7gr Bullseye. And all the while I ignore the noisy ones who claim that Bullseye is “dirty.”

View attachment 855171
That’s a 25-yard target. It’s a bit over 2-inches but I’m not a competition shooter… just a guy who absolutely loves FINE handguns.

That's great advice and even better shooting. The M52 is an accurate gun and a pleasure to shoot which reminds me, mine is due for a range day.

 

[Model52guy]

Over the years, I’ve tried numerous combinations for both cycling and accuracy . My favorite load is 148 gr HBWC (usually Hornady) with 3.2 grains W 231 (or HP38). I set up an old Dillon RL450 I picked up at a swap meet years ago dedicated to my Model 52’s.

 

[REParker]

Don't know if anyone cares but I have a Model 52 Parts & Instruction manual somewhere here in my mess from when I had mine (Late '70s?) if anyone's interested.

 

[willmckee]

titegroup was the only thing on hand remotely appropriate. i keep it handy because it’s the best i’ve found for 45 Schofield and Colt, and is ok in others. i’ll get some 231. used it a lot in the past.
thanks
Roger

 

[willmckee]

i can see why Col Askins loved this pistol though.

 

[Krogen]

I'll add a bit more to @Sevens post. There's another way the Model 52 can be damaged:

3) Loading a round into the chamber and letting the slide slam shut over it. Don't Do It! It puts a lot of strain on the extractor. Always chamber from the magazine.

Titegroup isn't my favorite for anything. It is definitely hot burning. As said above, Bullseye and 231 are great. I also like WST as an alternative to Bullseye.

 

[Sevens]

I would say that outside of an open bolt design (such as the Thompson), it is truly a horrendous idea to thumb a round in to the chamber of literally any semiautomatic firearm in man’s history and then let the slide or bolt slam down over it.

Frankly, it is outside the scope of the design and in some cases (I’m looking at YOU AR-15 with your floating firing pin), it is simply dangerous to do this on top of being potentially harmful to the working parts of the firearm.

As for Titegroup, it has some roles, I can admit that begrudgingly. I loathe it beyond all powders for revolver use because it makes the entire cylinder too hot to handle.

The best thing I know about Titegroup is that it is the polar opposite of position sensitive. While some powders are totally erratic when there is far too much open combustion space, Titegroup ignores it and does not care. For that I have to give it props.

 

[whelenshooter]

titegroup was the only thing on hand remotely appropriate. i keep it handy because it’s the best i’ve found for 45 Schofield and Colt, and is ok in others. i’ll get some 231. used it a lot in the past.
thanks
Roger

If you can't find Winchester 231, Hodgdon HP-38 is the same powder in a different can.

Whelenshooter

 

[Jimbo41]

Titegroup is my favorite powder for suppressed shooting.
Dirty old Bullseye is my favorite under a HBWC.
Stop using HBWCs for defensive loads, that’s old old news, there are much better options today.

 

[Dave Haynes]

I would say that outside of an open bolt design (such as the Thompson), it is truly a horrendous idea to thumb a round in to the chamber of literally any semiautomatic firearm in man’s history and then let the slide or bolt slam down over it.

Frankly, it is outside the scope of the design and in some cases (I’m looking at YOU AR-15 with your floating firing pin), it is simply dangerous to do this on top of being potentially harmful to the working parts of the firearm.

It is done all the time with M1 Garand rifles and the design of the extractor make it a snap over rim work fine. Both Garand and carbine also have floating FP and slamfires are unheard of except when the FP breaks and jams solid (which happens).
I totally agree about never slamming the slide onto a chambered round with pistols. Also never on Mausers or any controlled feed bolt action.

 

[Sevens]

The Garand was obviously designed around the en bloc clip so it seems to me entirely outside the scope of design to slam the bolt over a chambered round.

Folks “doing something all the time” is an awfully weak argument.

And I’ll be convinced never, by anyone, that letting a bolt fly on to an already chambered round on a rifle with a floating firing pin is a good idea.

Even when properly stripping from a magazine, every AR-15 firing pin kisses the primer of the chambering round - enough that it leaves a mark.

There’s numerous things that folks get away with but I won’t be convinced that it’s a good idea.

 

[Dave Haynes]

Folks “doing something all the time” is an awfully weak argument.

How many Garand owners want to target or test their rifles by loading an 8 round en bloc when they adjust their sights? Or if you are shooting and letting the rifle cool a bit between shots? Additionally, how many M1s are down with broken extractors? I've never seen one. Maybe one will chip at the sharp part from poor heat treating but I've never seen one. In the Garand or carbine. Using Russian steel cased ammo seems to harm them sometimes but they were never designed for that.

A marked primer is common with all of the floating FP types. It bothers me too but apparently not the designer or the Army. If it was a problem there would have been a fix but there is none. 6M carbines and 5M M1s and countless ARs.. A 25 cent spring is all it would take. Browning did it with the 1911.