Model 65-1

[anewkirk]

I've been looking for a nice .357 revolver for a while (since I got stupid and sold my 686). Earlier today I got the chance to pick up a model 65-1 with the serial # 1D15XXX .

I'm sure i'll be going crazy trying to read a TON of info on these revolvers in the next few days - but in the mean time I have a couple of questions:

1) Can anyone tell me approximately when this gun was made?

2) A few people are telling me that it is not a good idea to shoot 125gr .357 bullets in this revolver. Is that true? If so, why?

Any info would be greatly appreciated!

 

[bamabiker]

1976 - 77
The full power 357s with the light 125 gr. bullets have caused cracks in some K frame forcing cones.

 

[anewkirk]

Thank you very much for the information.

If I keep it I will likely just use .38 ammo since we already buy that for my wife's 649.

Now i'll need to go shoot it and see if it has found its home or if it will end up on the trading block.

 

[AZretired]

It would take many, many hot 125s to do any damage. Shoot 158 gr. Magnums and it won't be an issue. I have a 65-1 with thousands of 158 gr, JHP rounds through it with no sign of any damage.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2

 

[WPWarhawk]

I have a model 13 that's about the same vintage, same gun as the 64 but in blue steel. This M13 is one of the best shooting revolvers I've ever owned.

 

[anewkirk]

That's great to know, thanks!

 

[anewkirk]

Here are some pics of the 65-1. The only thing I have done since I got it is cleaned the bore and a general wipe down with a rag I sprayed with Ballistol.

Is this considered pretty good shape for a model 65-1?

In the 3rd pic it sorta looks like it has a ding or small dent close to the end of the barrel, but there is nothing resembling a ding or dent there. It is just my inability to take a decent photo I suppose.

A friend is trying to convince me to let him "clean it"..I think he uses a scotchbrite pad or something similar on his revolvers. I think mine looks fine as it is, so he won't be cleaning it at least while I own it.

 

[nipster]

Probably not the original grips, but nice gun. I too have a 65-1, didnt realize they were made for such a short time

 

[anewkirk]

This was originally a state police issue. Would it have came with magnas?

 

[nipster]

Would it have came with magnas?

Yes.......

 

[C Islander]

I've got a 4" 65-2 and a 3" 65-3. Trust me, you'll like it.

 

[Martya]

I have a 13-1, the blue version of yours, and I have followed many many threads on the "full power" cracked forcing cone issue on the 13 / 65. My take is there are more emotional statements than factual statement; of the hundreds of comments by many I have seen one photo of a cracked forcing cone, and no one can actually state what the "full power" line is that cannot be crossed, or what round count is the max allowed. You can read all sorts of general comments, but no one can actually state the maximum fps of a bullet as being OK or too much, mostly due to the fact that there are only a rare couple of actual cracked forcing cones reported or remembered. For example, I saw one set of comments where someone said that the Double Tap 125gr 1650fps was too "hot" for the 13 / 65, then someone pipes in that "in the old days that would be considered 'average'" or something to that effect. One can find many opinions, but few facts. Here are the warning statements regarding cracking the forcing cone:
"Shoot only 158gr bullets"
"Stay away from the "full power" 125gr loads" [full power being anywhere from 1250fps up to 1700fps depending on the comments]
"The 125gr bullets are smaller thus allow hot blow-by gasses to overheat the forcing cone"
"110gr 1295fps Winchester is OK" (and 158 is also, but not 125??)
"today's loads are milder than we had years ago. Shoot anything you want."
"the cut on the bottom of the forcing cone on the 13 / 65 to clear the cylinder, that is the weak point."

And of course you get get comments like this:
"I know a guy who has a cousin who knows a guy who shot a verified 20,000 rounds of "hot" 125gr 357 and never cracked his forcing cone."

It goes on. The 13 was an FBI choice for a while, I guess if the cracking forcing cone was a big problem we would have heard a lot more about it. Likely the reality is that like anything mass produced you can get an few from the extreme end of the tolerances of the mass quantity that may have a flaw. I am sure that all the comments originate from some factual but not readily available evidence. That said, now you cannot get replacement barrels for the 13 / 65, and I like my 13 a lot, so personally I err on the side of caution.

Based on assimilation of all these comments, I have my own guidelines:
Shoot 38 and [mostly] 38 +P 158gr at the range, and one or two cylinder loads of 357 158gr to remember how much a 357 kicks.
Clean it well after each range visit, especially the forcing cone area.
Right now my 13-1 is my bedroom gun, when it is in the bedroom and when I infrequently carry it, it is loaded with 158gr 1250 fps hollow points.

Enjoy that trigger, I don't think you can customize anything to match it.

 

[kbm6893]

I have a 13-1, the blue version of yours, and I have followed many many threads on the "full power" cracked forcing cone issue on the 13 / 65. My take is there are more emotional statements than factual statement; of the hundreds of comments by many I have seen one photo of a cracked forcing cone, and no one can actually state what the "full power" line is that cannot be crossed, or what round count is the max allowed. You can read all sorts of general comments, but no one can actually state the maximum fps of a bullet as being OK or too much, mostly due to the fact that there are only a rare couple of actual cracked forcing cones reported or remembered. For example, I saw one set of comments where someone said that the Double Tap 125gr 1650fps was too "hot" for the 13 / 65, then someone pipes in that "in the old days that would be considered 'average'" or something to that effect. One can find many opinions, but few facts. Here are the warning statements regarding cracking the forcing cone:
"Shoot only 158gr bullets"
"Stay away from the "full power" 125gr loads" [full power being anywhere from 1250fps up to 1700fps depending on the comments]
"The 125gr bullets are smaller thus allow hot blow-by gasses to overheat the forcing cone"
"110gr 1295fps Winchester is OK" (and 158 is also, but not 125??)
"today's loads are milder than we had years ago. Shoot anything you want."
"the cut on the bottom of the forcing cone on the 13 / 65 to clear the cylinder, that is the weak point."

And of course you get get comments like this:
"I know a guy who has a cousin who knows a guy who shot a verified 20,000 rounds of "hot" 125gr 357 and never cracked his forcing cone."

It goes on. The 13 was an FBI choice for a while, I guess if the cracking forcing cone was a big problem we would have heard a lot more about it. Likely the reality is that like anything mass produced you can get an few from the extreme end of the tolerances of the mass quantity that may have a flaw. I am sure that all the comments originate from some factual but not readily available evidence. That said, now you cannot get replacement barrels for the 13 / 65, and I like my 13 a lot, so personally I err on the side of caution.

Based on assimilation of all these comments, I have my own guidelines:
Shoot 38 and [mostly] 38 +P 158gr at the range, and one or two cylinder loads of 357 158gr to remember how much a 357 kicks.
Clean it well after each range visit, especially the forcing cone area.
Right now my 13-1 is my bedroom gun, when it is in the bedroom and when I infrequently carry it, it is loaded with 158gr 1250 fps hollow points.

Enjoy that trigger, I don't think you can customize anything to match it.

A friend of mine is a retired FBI agent and carried a model 13 for his first 4 years with the bureau. I don't know what they qualified with, but I do know that just about every agent carried .38 +P rounds. He carried 4 .38 and the last 2 were .357. If they qualfied with .38 as well, it doesn't really give us an idea on how well they held up to .357. Also, the FBI has full time armorers that could fix the guns or replace barrels since they were plentiful when they were issued in the 80's. I've owned probably 6 or 7 K frame magnums, and I'm down to one, a 13-1 in 4". The gun looks like it has never been shot. I plan to keep it looking nice, so it will shoot mainly .38 wadcutters, with the occasional cylinder of 158 grain only .357 magnum or .38 +P. They don't make them anymore, can't fix a split forcing cone, and since mine was made in 1977, it wouldn't even qualify for the lifetime warranty.

When i do send my guns in, I send them to Frank Smith at LSG manufacturing. He's an authorized S&W repair center and a really nice guy. Both times I have sent my K frame magnums in to him, he emphatically told me NOT to shoot .357 in them because they can't fix them. No big deal. I have a Ruger Service Six that will take whatever I can throw at it when i feel the need to fire off some hot .357. Say what you want about Ruger vs. S&W, but they turned out a K frame size .357 magnum that could take whatver you could throw at them and beg for more. Might not be as smooth or refined as a S&W K frame, but they are tougher.

And while some of the intenret talk is nothing more than opinion, the one fact you listed is the forcing cone having a flat spot on the barrel. That is 100% true and it IS the weak spot in the K .357. The L and N .357's don't have that flat spot.

 

[Martya]

Yeah, I guess a better way to say it is there is just enough internet lore to make me careful about what I shoot in my 13-1 (also from 1977).

They don't make them anymore, can't fix a split forcing cone...

Actually I read someone TIG welded then re-machined their cracked forcing cone. Didn't mention anything negative after that regarding accuracy or anything, so maybe... But that is for another post, perhaps.