OP
Received the pin gauges today. Results were .4295 go, .430 no go!
Model 69, 2.75" barrel, Pin gauge update
- Thread starter Shark Bait
- Start date
Nemo288
Member
Cool. Nice to know.
That seems to be typical of the S&W 44's since about Y2K.
That seems to be typical of the S&W 44's since about Y2K.
muddocktor
Member
What is a PINK GAUGE, Shark Bait? 
Do you perhaps mean PIN gauge? Check your thread title. 
Do you perhaps mean PIN gauge? Check your thread title.
OP
What is a PINK GAUGE, Shark Bait?
Yup, just saw that. I hate auto-correct. Fixed now. Thanks.
OP
My 629-3 and 629-4 both are smaller than .4295, and my pre-29 and 24-3 are larger than .431.
My M396NG has .4285" throat. My 629-5 & M329NG have .4290" throats. All made since 2000.
I ordered a M69 2-3/4" from Grab-A-Gun yesterday. Waiting for them to ship it now.
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I ordered a M69 2-3/4" from Grab-A-Gun yesterday. Waiting for them to ship it now.
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Got mine! Really like it so far.
I was surprised when I measured the SA pull at 6#s out of the box. Didn't feel bad. Polished things up & put a Wolff 14# rebound spring in (cut 1/2 a coil off) & now it's 3#.
I took the factory "imitation Hogue grips" off right away (they are always uncomfortable to shot) & put the Badgers on for show but I got some Pachmayr Diamond Pros for range day to use on it.
The forcing cones on these 2 piece barrel guns have always been smoother & have a better transition to the rifling than the one piece barrels. This one looks good too.
The throats measure right at .429" with my pin gages. B-C is a tight .005". Weight 34.1 oz.
I cleaned up the muzzle burrs, left from the installation tool, with my 45 degree chamfer tool.
More after I get to the range later this week.
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I was surprised when I measured the SA pull at 6#s out of the box. Didn't feel bad. Polished things up & put a Wolff 14# rebound spring in (cut 1/2 a coil off) & now it's 3#.
I took the factory "imitation Hogue grips" off right away (they are always uncomfortable to shot) & put the Badgers on for show but I got some Pachmayr Diamond Pros for range day to use on it.
The forcing cones on these 2 piece barrel guns have always been smoother & have a better transition to the rifling than the one piece barrels. This one looks good too.
The throats measure right at .429" with my pin gages. B-C is a tight .005". Weight 34.1 oz.
I cleaned up the muzzle burrs, left from the installation tool, with my 45 degree chamfer tool.
More after I get to the range later this week.
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Collo Rosso
Member
200 rounds through mine now and it still has that giggle factor. Put in a 11lb. rebound spring and the trigger wouldn't return. Did a little polishing and it still wouldn't return the trigger. Was out of 12lb so a 13lb went in. Worked just fine and I'll leave it as is.
Definitely will put a F.O. front sight on it. Love it on my 627.
Have put a Hogue grip on it and will have to post a pic. Really liking this little boomer!
Definitely will put a F.O. front sight on it. Love it on my 627.
Have put a Hogue grip on it and will have to post a pic. Really liking this little boomer!
Little over 400 rnd thru mine. Original trigger pull just under 5 1/2 lbs. Currently right at 4 ¾ lbs – doesn’t feel that heavy and works fine for me. I replaced the factory grips with the S&W 500 X Frame Hogues. A set of Pachmayr Diamon Pros are supposed to arrive today – will give them a try to see if they work as good as the X Frame Hogues.
Here’s a group I shot at 50 yards rested over my range bag 2 days ago.
Not a fluke – similar groups at both 25 & 50 yds previously.
My gun shoots extremely well with loads it likes but is pretty picky, so if at first you don’t succeed, try, try again.
Second the “giggle factor” – really like this little gun.
Paul
Here’s a group I shot at 50 yards rested over my range bag 2 days ago.
Not a fluke – similar groups at both 25 & 50 yds previously.
My gun shoots extremely well with loads it likes but is pretty picky, so if at first you don’t succeed, try, try again.
Second the “giggle factor” – really like this little gun.
Paul
cowboy4evr
Member
I guess I see things a bit differently as I feel that measuring the cylinder throats is only 1/2 of the process . If the throats are smaller than the groove diameter of the barrel you will get significant leading of the barrel . I feel that getting the " groove " diameter of the barrel is just as important . The Smith rifling is a bit harder to measure but you can get a number that is real close using a micrometer . I would rather have throats that are a bit oversize than under size compared to the groove diameter of the barrel .
Collo Rosso
Member
All true... but, you can make tight throats (exit bores) bigger. You can't make big ones smaller.
Nice shooting, Paul105!
More
I do not intend to go back to lead bullets in any of my guns again. I'm personally past that after decades of shooting them. Plated & jacketed work fine for me now.
I did however check many more clearances/dimensions than I posted above:
- bore: .4168"
- groove: .4296"
The rest of them will be posted in a thread after I get some range time. ( I'll be leaving the 25yd & > targets for Paul. )
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I do not intend to go back to lead bullets in any of my guns again. I'm personally past that after decades of shooting them. Plated & jacketed work fine for me now.
I did however check many more clearances/dimensions than I posted above:
- bore: .4168"
- groove: .4296"
The rest of them will be posted in a thread after I get some range time. ( I'll be leaving the 25yd & > targets for Paul.
).
Some random thoughts/additional info:
Tried the Pachmayr Diamond Pros. They don’t work for me – too narrow at the top and allow trigger guard to impact middle finger. They are real thick in the middle and the rubber material is very tacky. Don’t let my experience dissuade you. Everyone’s different, so they may work for someone else. I will stick with the Hogue X Frame 500s.
Wish Hogue would make a “reduced profile” version of the X Frame 500s. I’ve thought about reshaping them with a belt sander, but I typically make things worse, so I’ve been reluctant to do so. Be nice if the finger groves were eliminated (although they fit my hand perfectly), and the butt was recontoured/rounded.
Seems to be mixed feelings among very knowledgeable handgunners/reloaders about using the Zero .431 Jacket Flat Points in guns with smaller throats. Some say no problem, some say S&W revolvers are a bit “delicate” and it might be wiser to use smaller diameter bullets. With that in mind, I ran the .431 zeros thru a lee .429 push thru, cast bullet sizer die. Not much resistance and the bullets come out exactly .430 on my Mitutoyo digital micrometer. You can do a bunch of these in short order if this is the direction you want to take. Note that Hornady’s XTPs are .430 so the resized Zero’s should be good to go for anyone with concerns.
Tried these .430 Zeros over 9.0gr of Hodgdon Universal. Max load on Hodgdon’s online data is 10.2gr with 240gr Nosler Jacketed, so the usual cautions are in order. Shot very well in the 2 ¾” M69 at 25 yds rested over my range bag. The one (xed out) on the lower right was my bad. Didn’t chrono or compare to .431s. Just a guess, but these are probably running around 950 fps +- in the 2 ¾” bbl. The HP38 loads in the second photo are definitely slower and are very comfortable to shoot.
Here are some lighter loads that didn’t shoot quite as well but should be serviceable and would probably tighten up with some tweaking.
These were deep seated to .44 special OALs in .44 Magnum cases. Bayou’s at 1.515” OAL. Berry’s also at 1.515”.
Paul
Tried the Pachmayr Diamond Pros. They don’t work for me – too narrow at the top and allow trigger guard to impact middle finger. They are real thick in the middle and the rubber material is very tacky. Don’t let my experience dissuade you. Everyone’s different, so they may work for someone else. I will stick with the Hogue X Frame 500s.
Wish Hogue would make a “reduced profile” version of the X Frame 500s. I’ve thought about reshaping them with a belt sander, but I typically make things worse, so I’ve been reluctant to do so. Be nice if the finger groves were eliminated (although they fit my hand perfectly), and the butt was recontoured/rounded.
Seems to be mixed feelings among very knowledgeable handgunners/reloaders about using the Zero .431 Jacket Flat Points in guns with smaller throats. Some say no problem, some say S&W revolvers are a bit “delicate” and it might be wiser to use smaller diameter bullets. With that in mind, I ran the .431 zeros thru a lee .429 push thru, cast bullet sizer die. Not much resistance and the bullets come out exactly .430 on my Mitutoyo digital micrometer. You can do a bunch of these in short order if this is the direction you want to take. Note that Hornady’s XTPs are .430 so the resized Zero’s should be good to go for anyone with concerns.
Tried these .430 Zeros over 9.0gr of Hodgdon Universal. Max load on Hodgdon’s online data is 10.2gr with 240gr Nosler Jacketed, so the usual cautions are in order. Shot very well in the 2 ¾” M69 at 25 yds rested over my range bag. The one (xed out) on the lower right was my bad. Didn’t chrono or compare to .431s. Just a guess, but these are probably running around 950 fps +- in the 2 ¾” bbl. The HP38 loads in the second photo are definitely slower and are very comfortable to shoot.
Here are some lighter loads that didn’t shoot quite as well but should be serviceable and would probably tighten up with some tweaking.
These were deep seated to .44 special OALs in .44 Magnum cases. Bayou’s at 1.515” OAL. Berry’s also at 1.515”.
Paul
StakeOut
US Veteran
My 44 Caliber Range loads:
Starline 44 magnum case:
240gr LSWC over 5.0gr Bullseye
240gr LSWC over 7.0gr Unique
240gr LSWC over 7.5gr BE86
Starline 44 Special Case:
240gr LSWC over 4.0gr Trail Boss
240gr LSWC over 5.5gr Unique
240gr LSWC over 4.3gr 700X
I use a lot of S&B primers reloading 44 Caliber but usually it's whichever I found a good buy on.
Starline 44 magnum case:
240gr LSWC over 5.0gr Bullseye
240gr LSWC over 7.0gr Unique
240gr LSWC over 7.5gr BE86
Starline 44 Special Case:
240gr LSWC over 4.0gr Trail Boss
240gr LSWC over 5.5gr Unique
240gr LSWC over 4.3gr 700X
I use a lot of S&B primers reloading 44 Caliber but usually it's whichever I found a good buy on.
I loaded up some Nosler 240gr JHPs, with Unique, to run thru the M69 (hopefully THIS week
) & started loading them in my very old Remington 44 Mag cases when I noticed they had very little resistance (bullet-case tension) being seated. Short story, the Noslers are right at .4290" & the thin case walls of the Remingtons weren't a good match. Ended up using those Remington cases with some Xtreme 240gr P-RNFPs (.4296") bullets instead. Used the Noslers in some Starline cases (thicker case walls) instead. I had forgotten the Noslers were that size.Why did you deep seat those bullets to that (1.515") OAL"? (My 44 Specials loaded with Berry's 240gr were 1.435" OAL.)
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When using commercial 240gr SWC BB bullets in .44 Mag cases, I seat/lightly crimp the bullet just above the front drive band. Didn't change the seating depth for the Berry's, so they just happened to come out the same OAL.
Paul
Paul
captainjohnsofd
Member
Now if they would only make them in .41 Magnum.......
smoothshooter
Member
Nothing says you have to shoot full-powered loads.
.44 Special-type loads are still powerful and more pleasant to shoot.
Nemo288
Member
Yep.
8 grains Unique/Universal and the 240 grain bullet of your choice (I choose cast) covers pretty much all the bases except maybe engine blocks and Kodiak bears.
7 grains is even nicer to shoot and almost as powerful, just not going to get you trans or supersonic.
8 grains Unique/Universal and the 240 grain bullet of your choice (I choose cast) covers pretty much all the bases except maybe engine blocks and Kodiak bears.
7 grains is even nicer to shoot and almost as powerful, just not going to get you trans or supersonic.
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