Model of 91 in 38 S&W Revolver Barrel 8 3/4" Long

[Boulder350]

Recently there was a Model of 91 barrel in 38 S&W for sale on GB. I was the under bidder on the item.

It looked like it was a single shot barrel that was almost completely converted to a revolver barrel. The barrel measured 8 3/4". Did anyone here buy it? Has anyone seen a conversion like this before?

 

[red9]

Even a donor 10" .38 barrel is scarce; I don't recall having ever seen one.
Did the auction mention a serial number on the barrel or cylinder?

Bob

 

[Boulder350]

The auction mentioned a serial number in the 21,xxx range. That serial number is stamped on the cylinder. I can't see if there are serial numbers on the latch or the barrel and there was nothing mentioned in the listing.

 

[BMur]

Late long barrel

Looks like 8 1/2" with a post 1902 caliber stamp. That's a very odd one for sure. Has to be a special order item. Too bad you couldn't get the barrel serial number?
That does not look like it was converted from a single shot barrel. I'm not sure you could even convert one. The milling process would be near impossible without destroying the top-strap.


Murph

 

[Boulder350]

Here is the best picture from the auction of the barrel and latch. It doesn't look like there are any numbers on the right side. Left side is unclear.

 

[BMur]

Model of 91?

Mark is the barrel stamped on top MODEL OF 91? If it is then it's 100% legit. Especially if it's centered. Rare item!

Murph

 

[glowe]

Since the 38 Double Action revolver could accept the barrel assembly, a picture or description of the top rib stampings would be nice.

 

[Boulder350]

It's marked Model of 91. I don't know if its a modification from Bubbas gun shop, or if someone at the factory messed with it in their spare time, or if the factory made the modifications for a customer to fill a special order.

 

[Boulder350]

The listing is still available for review in the advanced section of GB. I typed in Model of 91 8 3/4 barrel to find it again under the auction completed section.

 

[glowe]

It's marked Model of 91. I don't know if its a modification from Bubbas gun shop, or if someone at the factory messed with it in their spare time, or if the factory made the modifications for a customer to fill a special order.

Thanks, I assume there is no picture of the rifling inside the barrel? Factory multi-piece barrels should have been assembled before rifling, so inside of barrel would not show the joining.

The pictures of the OP's barrel looks as if the rib was cut back from the muzzle, as compared to my 1891?

 

[Boulder350]

I think this barrel started life as a single shot barrel. The cylinder of a 38 S&W is 1.21" long. 10' - 1.21" = 8 3/4.

 

[BMur]

Legit

I agree that it was shortened but I honestly don't see how it was converted. It also can't be a two piece barrel since it's "factory stamped" with the caliber on the left side. That makes it Post 1902 manufactured.
Also I don't believe they made 38 cal single shots this late. They were all 22/32.
I think it's a legit special order MODEL OF 91 revolver 10" barrel manufactured some time after 1902 that was later shortened for some reason. The factory caliber stamp is 100% legit. That's a factory revolver barrel! It's very possible that it's 100% legit special order.

Murph

 

[BMur]

Legit

I just looked at the auction. Wow, that sold for a respectable amount $1000+.

The photos show clearly a factory muzzle crown and I believe the barrel numbers match the cylinder numbers.

I'm seeing 21832 on the cylinder.

I can make out a 3 and an 8 on the barrel. Not too clear but there are numbers on the barrel. Those that I can read do match.

I'm maintaining my opinion that it's a special order and 100% legit. Rare bird for sure.


Murph

 

[Boulder350]

Well Murph, you are making me feel bad. Maybe I should have bid more.

I enjoy studying this model. There are so many variations. I have two loose single shot barrels in 38 S&W. One is an 8" one and the other is a 6" one. Don't know why they ever made a 6" one. Guess it can be more accurate than a revolver barrel. One is marked with the caliber an the other is not. I have a few more loose 32" barrels too. Some are marked with the caliber and some are not. Two of the 32 cal barrels have been machined flat with a recess (fancy flat) for some reason.

I have a loose barrel in 32 M&H or 32 H&R, which is a cartridge discontinued in the early 1900's after the 32 S&W Long was introduced.

 

[rct269]

Speaking of loose barrels, I had a 6" 38 S&W----as new---ostensibly from the S&W Parts Department (no serial number). It had been modified------bottom of the barrel lug was ground "fancy flat" (a la a 3rd Model), touched up with cold blue, and it was fit with 3rd Model sights (screw adjustable for windage/Patridge front). The story was all remaining single shot barrels had been so modified by the factory at a point in time so as to fit/function with any of the three top-break models.

I asked Jinks about it. His response: "Never happened!"

Then I asked Terry Wagner (Mr. Single Shot) about it. His response: "Oh yeah, I've got some of those."

Does anyone else out there have/or seen some such?

Ralph Tremaine

 

[BMur]

Low ball?

Well Murph, you are making me feel bad. Maybe I should have bid more.

I enjoy studying this model. There are so many variations. I have two loose single shot barrels in 38 S&W. One is an 8" one and the other is a 6" one. Don't know why they ever made a 6" one. Guess it can be more accurate than a revolver barrel. One is marked with the caliber an the other is not. I have a few more loose 32" barrels too. Some are marked with the caliber and some are not. Two of the 32 cal barrels have been machined flat with a recess (fancy flat) for some reason.

I have a loose barrel in 32 M&H or 32 H&R, which is a cartridge discontinued in the early 1900's after the 32 S&W Long was introduced.

Sorry Mark,
I know the feeling.
I collect loose Long barrels too. Let's face it, they are at least scarce. I'd have to rate this late one RARE! Sure would like to see a letter on this one. I would have bid it up had I seen it but not much more than it sold for.
You have two single shot barrels in 38 cal??? Are they early numbers? I have a model 1 in 38 S&W with 10" barrel(rare). Haven't shot it yet but plan too. I have black powder rounds loaded up and ready to go.

Murph

 

[Boulder350]

Here are pictures of the barrels. The 8" nickel one is complete with no serial number on it. The 6" blue one is missing a bunch of parts, has no serial number on it, and is machined fancy flat on the bottom. The machining is not buffed and is still in the white even though the rest of the barrel is blued.

 

[rct269]

Thank you, folks!

God love him, I've never heard Roy say, "I don't know.". My all time favorite non-response response of his is "They (S&W) would do anything anybody would pay them to do." which many, without thinking, see as an affirmative reply--------which "ain't necessarily so"---as the song goes.

Oh well---------------------------

Ralph Tremaine

 

[rct269]

My best tale of "loose barrels" goes like this: I once made damn sure I was the high bidder on a lot of 15-18 of them----to get the three I wanted. One of the surplus items a 10" unfinished Olympic barrel---in the white, no markings, no sights, no nothing. I ended up giving all the excess barrels to a friend who had a "put together"/"frankengun" 2nd model. He, in turn, got a hold of Dave Chicoine, and made a deal to have Dave fit (and finish) the Olympic barrel, and a .32 barrel to his 2nd model frame---in exchange for the remaining barrels. All parties concerned were happy campers---especially Dave!

Ralph Temaine

 

[Boulder350]

I have six 32 S&W single shot loose barrels. The two 10" were machined fancy flat, the 2 nickel ones were not. One was started machining flat but was not completed.

I track features on the single shot 3rd models (perfected) and have 156 guns in my research. Only one is nickel. Not sure if it was factory special order, if someone finished it in nickel after it left the factory, or if it was sent back to the factory for nickel finish change. I don't ever remember any loose barrels in nickel being finished fancy flat, just blue ones.