Modified triple lock question

[paplinker]

Hello, A buddy of mine just picked up a triple lock he won at auction. I looked at it yesterday and it has some changes.

First it was cut down to 3 1/2 inches,front sight attachment very nicely done. But the caliber markings were eliminated and now it has recessed cylinders. I think the caliber markings were taken off on purpose when it was refinished. Leading me to believe the caliber was likely changed. We put a 44 special in and it fit but seemed like half the rim was still protruding and not flush with the cylinder. Both cylinder and bbl are correctly numbered.

Does anyone has any idea what likely it was changed to and the best way to safely prove it?

I feel the 44 special round might have got stuck if we closed the cylinder. The cylinder gaps are very tight.

Thanks
Rich

 

[Muley Gil]

Hello, A buddy of mine just picked up a triple lock he won at auction. I looked at it yesterday and it has some changes.

First it was cut down to 3 1/2 inches,front sight attachment very nicely done. But the caliber marking were eliminated and now it has recessed cylinders. I think the caliber marking were taken off on purpose when it was refinished. Leading me to believe the caliber was likely changed. We put a 44 special in and it fit but seemed like half the rim was still protruding and not flush with the cylinder. Both cylinder and bbl are correctly numbered.

Does anyone has any idea what likely it was changed to and the best way to safely prove it?

I feel the 44 special round might have got stuck if we closed the cylinder. The cylinder gaps are very tight.

Thanks
Rich

Measure the cylinder/recoil shield gap and if possible, the depth of the cylinder recesses. Measure the rim thickness on a .44 Special case.

Check and make sure a .44 Magnum round will NOT chamber.

Could it be a .455 TL that has been re-chambered to .45 Colt? .45 Colt rims are thinner than .44 Special rims.

 

[weatherby]

What is the difference between 44 special and Russian?

Could that be it now ?

 

[paplinker]

Measure the cylinder/recoil shield gap and if possible, the depth of the cylinder recesses. Measure the rim thickness on a .44 Special case.

Check and make sure a .44 Magnum round will NOT chamber.

Could it be a .455 TL that has been re-chambered to .45 Colt? .45 Colt rims are thinner than .44 Special rims.

Thanks! Gives me a starting point with him. I will have him try a 45 ACP just to see if it will flush up. As far as measuring gap its as close to touching the recoil shield as any gun I have come across. At the time I was pretty impressed how close it was. Almost too close. He has the letter for it but misplaced it. Serial 12908

 

[Muley Gil]

What is the difference between 44 special and Russian?

Could that be it now ?

Rim thickness is the same on both. The Russian was lengthened to create the Special.

 

[steelslaver]

45 colt has same thickness rim as the 44s and a 45 colt rim is same OD as 44s. You need to partially recess case heads to convert a 455 to 45 colt or mill of crack of cylinders. Not so with the 44. Suspect 45 colt conversation

 

[755]

i think slugging the barrel would be a good starting point

 

[Hondo44]

I think Muley Gil and steelslaver have figuered it out. I agree it sounds like your buddy has a .455 MKII British Service Revolver (BSR). The gun's serial #12908 is right in the middle of the known serial numbers of the 4th variation.


4. Variation - "44 HE - 1st Model", 'Triple Lock', unused frames assembled factory assembled/chambered for .455 the same as the 1st .455 Triple lock variation, but with much higher serial #s.

"As the Brit contracts were finishing up in April, 1916, [H of S&W pg. 203] S&W found enough [HE 1st Model TL frames, possibly already numbered as .44s, and .455 barrels and cyls] to build 691 .44 HE 1st Model [per Roy Jinks in various letters] Triple Lock frames [for chambering in .455*]. These guns are numbered in the .44 Spl serial number series. I have no idea why they were not just numbered in the .455 series. Perhaps it was .455 barrels and cylinders that the factory found, and they simply turned again to existing 44 HE 1st Model TL frames to use them up. They were sold commercially." Lee Jarrett

Since they were sold commercially and most never left the US, the gun will not have any British acceptance, proofing, export, etc., markings, like most BSRs.

So it's highly possible that it is a .455 TL converted to 45 Colt or 45 AR (Auto Rim). That could be why the .455 cal mark was removed from the barrel. Although with your description of the chamber recess method of conversion, and the tight headspace, it will still chamber and safely shoot .455 MKI and II cartridges because of the their skinny thickness case rim and larger diameter (they won't fit into the chamber recess).

It needs to be determined if the short .455 chambers have been lengthened for the longer 45 Colt case. If not it was converted to 45 AR. It will not shoot 45 ACP because even the 455 chamber shoulder is too deep in the chamber which will allow the ACP rounds to fall into the chambers. And there's no headspace for using 1/2 moon clips either.

Photo by Lee Jarrett

If chambers have not been extended for 45 Colt, the .44 Spl round will fit snugly enough in the chambers to appear to be the correct cartridge for the gun. So you need to experiment by chambering a 45 Colt cartridge. If it fits, the gun is safe to shoot three cartridges; .455, .45 AR, and 45 Colt.

If 45 Colt doesn't fit it'll safely shoot .455 and .45 AR.

Because of the 455 bore dimensions, .455 or 455 sized bullets will have the potential for best accuracy.

Let us know what you find out,

 

[Baltimoreed11754]

This is what a rebated British .455 HE cylinder looks like. It will chamber .45colt with the case rim 1/2 into the recess while a .455's wider rim straddles it.