MOE 15-22 a Rip-Off?

[Decipher]

I'm about to pull the trigger (pun intended) on a 15-22 and have been kicking around which model I want. After handling the MOE version yesterday, I realized the MOE version seems like a hard justification for the price tag. There is no weight savings with the stock, the grip is all about personal preference (I don't care for it one bit...maybe if it had a better feel but it's just hard plastic), and the MBUS offer no better sight picture than the standard sights on the regular version.

I built my own AR and spared no expense. I have the exact Mapgul stock found on the MOE 15-22 and MBUS on my AR, so it's nothing against Magpul. I love their products. I just see no real advantage to spending the extra money on the MOE version. Maybe if there were weight savings or the grip was substantially better, the price tag would become justified. The only real nod I can give the MOE version is the single-point snap-in on the lower.

Anyone wish they would have saved the money on the MOE version and just bought a set of MBUS for $40? Or, conversely, wish they would have spent the extra money for the MOE instead of the standard? I can purchase the standard version for $366 shipped with the threaded barrel.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

[Kevin8503]

I bought the MOE version and had buyers remorse for a bit. But then I went online and priced all the Magpul stuff individually, and I more than made out. I like the Magpul gear, but if I ever changed my mind I could sell the stuff and actually make some money towards something else.

That being said, when I bought mine, it was about an $80 between the cheapest MOE price and the cheapest standard 15-22 price. YMMV

 

[Road Man]

I recently purchased a MOE version. I made an informed choice.

True, the buttstock does wobble a bit and sometimes that wobble makes some noise. This does not bother me in the least. The relatively thin rubber pad on the buttstock does provide a better purchase on my shoulder, and I like that a lot. It does not really provide any recoil absorbing assistance, but this is a .22 so that is a complete non-issue for me.

The pistol grip is a perfect fit for my hands. I have tried the rubberized grips from MagPul and a variety of other manufacturers, the MOE works very well for me.

The MBUS sights flip up when needed and stay flat when not. The other sights used on the standard version stay up all the time. A red dot on a riser with a lower third co-witness would be fine with sights that stay up, but it is even better with the sights folded down. The MBUS sights are also lighter.

The single point sling attachment is a nice touch, but there are alternatives for putting aftermarket attachment points on the "buffer tube" that provide a similar functionality.

For me the MOE made complete sense, and for the slight added price, provide me with considerable added comfort and features. It sounds like that for YOU the cost to benefit ratio falls on the other side of center. If you don't think the MOE is worth the price then just get the standard version and save your money.

 

[Kevin8503]

I also share your views on the Magpul grip. It's ok, not any better in my opinion than the standard grip. But again, if I have to sell it, I'll make out ok.

 

[Cybertek]

I'm glad I spent the extra money on the MOE version. I like the flip up sights (mirrors my AR with Red Dot) and the other Magpul furniture. Also glad I have the QD sling mount. For me it was worth the money.

 

[cyphertext]

Not sure why you would even look for "weight savings" on a 15-22. If your AR-15 has Magpul furniture, then the MOE makes sense as it has the same feel, other than weight, as your AR and can make for a good trainer.

If you want all the Magpul goodies, then it is cheaper to buy the MOE version, usually.

 

[RedNeck Jim]

To me, one should only buy a MOE if they want better than standard... but not the best. The Magpul furniture offered on the MOE version is not their top of the line stuff. They have much better grips & stocks. If one wants really nice stuff on the 15-22, I always suggest buying the standard, threaded version, then upgrading with the better accessories.

That is what I did.

 

[Decipher]

Thanks for the extremely quick and insightful responses! I'm not looking for weight savings on the 15-22. I don't think it could possibly be any lighter. I guess weight saving was the only real justification I could see for the upgrade to the MOE stock. Otherwise, on a .22, it seems like the add-on is just for the "tacticool" effect.

I already have a spare set of MBUS in a box and waiting for a rail to be mounted to, so I personally have zero expense in adding those. Even if I didn't, I'm finding them for $40. I have a magnified optic on my AR, so the RDS I will be betting for my 15-22 doesn't have to match up. I prefer co-witnessing and will be using the MBUS for that purpose.

Let's do that math:
Standard Threaded barrel 15-22: $368 SHIPPED
Cheapest MOE 15-22 out there: $450 SHIPPED (I'm surprised at how the prices have dropped...maybe because of the ammo situation)

Add $40 for MBUS and we're at $408. Don't add them and we have an $82 difference. There's no arguing the extras are a better deal when purchased as a bundle already on the weapon, but are they really worth the extra money? Especially when you start to consider that for just $150 more than the MOE version, you can purchase a true AR. The value is dependant on the person, but I appreciate the responses.

I'm an all-out kind of guy. I spared no expense in building my AR and spent about $2,000 when it was all said and done. I usually prefer the top version of anything, but the margin closed greatly once handling the MOE. Your continued thoughts are appreciated.

 

[Kevin8503]

Also, optics. If you're looking to put a red dot or scope on, the MBUS sights make a lot of sense. If you're never planning on going that route, the standard sights are probably a better option.

The MBUS sights are nice, but a bit of a pain to adjust as windage is on the rear sight and elevation is on the front sight. Plus, you have to have to have that special tool to adjust the elevation. Not too convenient.

I wouldn't want to use the MBUS sights full time.

 

[raver]

I have the MOE, and while I do like it, I also will probably end up changing some/all of the pieces as time goes on.

My reasoning was that the 15-22 was my test to see if I liked the AR philosophy of design without spending twice the price on a 5.56 or 7.62 and I felt obligated to give it the fairest shot possible, thus getting the "best" off the shelf version made sense. I wanted the option to shoot stingers and the like, so I passed on the PC version.

If you already know ARs, I would say that the MOE is likely not for you, unless you have no intention of modding it.

 

[Decipher]

To me, one should only buy a MOE if they want better than standard... but not the best. The Magpul furniture offered on the MOE version is not their top of the line stuff. They have much better grips & stocks. If one wants really nice stuff on the 15-22, I always suggest buying the standard, threaded version, then upgrading with the better accessories.

That is what I did.

In fewer words, this is exactly what I was thinking and what I was truly inquiring about. It seems like you get middle-of-the-road "upgrades" which don't offer any real advantages. The ONLY thing I value on the MOE is that QD point for sling attachment. The rest could be better, or so it seems.

 

[Kevin8503]

I crunched numbers when I bought mine (and saved them because I'm a nerd like that). Here were the numbers I came up with (circa October 2013):

MOE Stock (on Amazon): $60
MBUS Rear Sight (on Amazon): $50
MBUS Front Sight (on Amazon): $40
MOE Grip (on Midway): $20
Total Value: $170

So even if I only sold them all for half of retail, I'd still more than break even. For me it was worth it.

In the end, I like the Magpul stuff. The only thing I really would consider changing is maybe the grip. I like the Magpul stuff so much that I just bought some of the XTM Enhanced Rail Covers too.

And I'd be lying if I said the Magpul name didn't have some influence. I'm (relatively) new to the rifle game, and Magpul is a trusted name in rifle accessories. There is so much junk out there; it's hard to wade through. At least with the Magpul swag, I knew I would be getting a solid product, and if I didn't like it I could turn around and sell it for a profit.

But every situation is different. In this case, I think it's pretty clear that the MOE version probably isn't the right choice for Decipher. That being said, I'm excited to see how he pimps out his 15-22!

 

[Decipher]

I crunched numbers when I bought mine (and saved them because I'm a nerd like that). Here were the numbers I came up with (circa October 2013):

MOE Stock (on Amazon): $60
MBUS Rear Sight (on Amazon): $50
MBUS Front Sight (on Amazon): $40
MOE Grip (on Midway): $20
Total Value: $170

So even if I only sold them all for half of retail, I'd still more than break even. For me it was worth it.

In the end, I like the Magpul stuff. The only thing I really would consider changing is maybe the grip. I like the Magpul stuff so much that I just bought some of the XTM Enhanced Rail Covers too.

And I'd be lying if I said the Magpul name didn't have some influence. I'm (relatively) new to the rifle game, and Magpul is a trusted name in rifle accessories. There is so much junk out there; it's hard to wade through. At least with the Magpul swag, I knew I would be getting a solid product, and if I didn't like it I could turn around and sell it for a profit.

But every situation is different. In this case, I think it's pretty clear that the MOE version probably isn't the right choice for Decipher. That being said, I'm excited to see how he pimps out his 15-22!

Thanks to everyone for sharing their thoughts.

Thanks also for sharing your numbers. Everyone has been super helpful. I understand this could be a little like arguing which optic is better. It's all about the shooter and there isn't a right or wrong answer. If I was new to the game, the MOE version is impossible to beat for the accessories. You're getting them at only about 25% above cost, so it's a great deal. I, however, think the form is over the function in this case, but I don't fault anyone for taking the leap.

Magpul is extremely trusted in the AR game and you were right for having faith in them. Their P-Mag is the only mag I trust for my AR. I thought the Magpul brand and upgrades would mean more but, once I actually handled the rifle, I was very disappointed. It's not about the quality, but what you're getting and what it means on the 15-22. It would be kind of like adding a buffer tube to the 22. There is no need for it and no advantage, other than to say you have it. Know what I mean? Anyone else?

 

[harrym]

I was about to buy the standard 15-22 till he handed me the MOE. It felt and looked better to me, so I spent the extra $90+ for it. At the time, they were all very scarce around here. I haven't regretted it. The electrical tape fix for the stock has it solid as could be. I traded the MBUS front sight for the standard front because I liked its looks better. The stock also looks so much better than the standard one. I'm happy. Too often I've bought cheap and later regretted it. Not this time.

 

[Kevin8503]

Thanks to everyone for sharing their thoughts.



Thanks also for sharing your numbers. Everyone has been super helpful. I understand this could be a little like arguing which optic is better. It's all about the shooter and there isn't a right or wrong answer. If I was new to the game, the MOE version is impossible to beat for the accessories. You're getting them at only about 25% above cost, so it's a great deal. I, however, think the form is over the function in this case, but I don't fault anyone for taking the leap.



Magpul is extremely trusted in the AR game and you were right for having faith in them. Their P-Mag is the only mag I trust for my AR. I thought the Magpul brand and upgrades would mean more but, once I actually handled the rifle, I was very disappointed. It's not about the quality, but what you're getting and what it means on the 15-22. It would be kind of like adding a buffer tube to the 22. There is no need for it and no advantage, other than to say you have it. Know what I mean? Anyone else?

I think you hit the nail on the head in that at the end of the day it's a .22LR.

That being said Black Rifle Disease clouds judgement sometimes

 

[Decipher]

Harrym hit it. I always buy top tier so I don't regret it later. This is the ONE case that has me reconsidering. I certainly don't claim to be the end-all, be-all with rifles. I have, however, researched things to death and learned a lot building my own AR. So, without rambling in excess or beating a dead horse, my personal take is this for NEW 15-22 buyers:

If you like the looks of the MOE, get it. That's about all it's good for. At the price S&W wants for it, you're darn close to flirting with purchasing a true .223/5.56 AR. Allow that to guide your decision. It's not to say it isn't worth the price as it's far better quality than the Mossberg offering. if you have no plans to upgrade those features on the MOE, you're set.

If you want all of the functionality of the 15-22, including identical weight and a better grip (my opinion), don't be afraid to "settle" on the standard threaded barrel. You're really not missing out on a thing and MBUS can be found for cheap. That's the one thing I'd transfer to the standard version.

Upgrades come along the way no matter what, as Kevin stated. The BRD is vicious and there is no cure. That's what makes the AR platform so addictive and popular. You can do ANYTHING to your weapon and no two are alike.

Thanks again for all the thoughts. I encourage more discussion on the matter. I love hearing where people come from and by and large, it sounds like pretty much everyone got exactly what they wanted. No real regrets so far either way.

 

[CrazyFingers]

"Ripoff" is a loaded term, and implies that Smith & Wesson is intentionally trying to gouge their customers. This is not accurate.

The 811034 SKU is not a ripoff. It is an option that Smith & Wesson offers to those who want to save some money on Magpul accessories they would have purchased anyway for their rifle.
If this SKU were not available, then to replicate it you'd need to buy the 811033 SKU and then add:
Magpul MBUS Rear sight - $55.00
Magpul MBUS Front sight - $38.00
Magpul MOE stock - $57.00
Magpul MOE pistol grip - $21.00

This is a total of $171.00 in additional parts.
The MSRP price difference between the 811034 and 811033 SKUs is $90.00, saving you $81.00. This is a great deal and you should absolutely purchase the 811034 SKU...

...only if you want the Magpul MOE gear.

If you don't, then it would be silly to buy that SKU. Fortunately, Smith & Wesson offers other SKUs to meet your needs.

Personally, I like the feel of the MOE grip better than the A2 grip. I also like the stock better than the standard M4 stock. The MBUS I ended up moving to my BCM 5.56, so that saved me money there too.

It's not a "ripoff".

 

[RedNeck Jim]

Especially when you start to consider that for just $150 more than the MOE version, you can purchase a true AR. The value is dependant on the person, but I appreciate the responses.

I think most purchase a 15-22 for other reasons than it is cheaper than an AR. The value I get from my 15-22, as opposed to my AR follows.

1) Ammo is much cheaper. My preferred ammo for my AR costs me .75. For the 15-22, I can get it for around .10.

2) My 15-22 is suppressed & is so quiet that I can shoot on my own property without disturbing the horses & dogs. This is a huge factor in allowing me to shoot a bunch... as opposed to loading up & shooting elsewhere. Only way to shoot an AR that quiet would be to go the route of .300 Blackout subsonic with suppressor, however that ammo is expensive & very hard to get.

For all the additions I have for my 15-22, I could easily have purchased another AR, however that would have gained me nothing... except for having another AR. The 15-22 gives me so much more... especially if your gun is used a lot & not a closet queen.

 

[Decipher]

I wasn't implying it was a "rip-off" as in an intentional gouging of the price. Your interpretation of that is just as loaded as the term itself. I do feel, however, that it's a bit of a rip-off in the sense that there is no clear advantage to the items over the original form. Is it a good deal? Oh yeah! I've already acknowledged that, repeatedly. But, for the new buyer who doesn't know any better, they are buying "upgrades" that really aren't upgrades on this platform at all. Therefore, the accessories are a "rip-off" to those who think they're getting a performance advantage over the original offering. In that case, it doesn't matter if it's 25% of the original cost or not. It's smart marketing and Magpul is selling items for a weapon they may not have otherwise sold to the 22 platform. In a way, it's a bit like preying on the uninformed or those who are new to the platform and don't know any better. That's not to say all buyers fall into this category, but I am willing to bet a lot of buyers are new to ARs all together and therefore buy into the MOE "performance" allure.

If it's for looks, as stated, then there's no rip-off at all. It's one heck of a deal!

 

[kingfhb]

"Ripoff" is a loaded term, and implies that Smith & Wesson is intentionally trying to gouge their customers. This far from accurate.

The 811034 SKU is not a ripoff. It is an option that Smith & Wesson offers to those who want to save some money on Magpul accessories they would have purchased anyway for their rifle.
If this SKU were not available, then to replicate it you'd need to buy the 811033 SKU and then add:
Magpul MBUS Rear sight - $55.00
Magpul MBUS Front sight - $38.00
Magpul MOE stock - $57.00
Magpul MOE pistol grip - $21.00

This is a total of $171.00 in additional parts.
The MSRP price difference between the 811034 and 811033 SKUs is $90.00, saving you $81.00. This is a great deal and you should absolutely purchase the 811034 SKU...

...only if you want the Magpul MOE gear.

If you don't, then it would be silly to buy that SKU. Fortunately, Smith & Wesson offers other SKUs to meet your needs.

Personally, I like the feel of the MOE grip better than the A2 grip. I also like the stock better than the standard M4 stock. The MBUS I ended up moving to my BCM 5.56, so that saved me money there too.

It's not a "ripoff".

I 100% agree... not a ripoff. I went the route of buying the base 15-22 and purchased all of the Magpul furniture for it and it definitely cost me.

In my case it was not wanting to wait for the MOE version to come in. I went a little further though, getting the Magpul ambi-safety, the KNS anti-walk pins, The MI Clamp-on SPS attachment, Magpul extended stock pad, Plinker Tactical Charging Handle, Tacticool22 handguard adaptor, 11.8" handguard, Blah blah blah...

Get as much as you can on the initial purchase for a cheap as you can. There's no cure for BRD... but watch out!! The government IS currently working on a vaccine!!!

 

[Decipher]

I think most purchase a 15-22 for other reasons than it is cheaper than an AR. The value I get from my 15-22, as opposed to my AR follows.

1) Ammo is much cheaper. My preferred ammo for my AR costs me .75. For the 15-22, I can get it for around .10.

2) My 15-22 is suppressed & is so quiet that I can shoot on my own property without disturbing the horses & dogs. This is a huge factor in allowing me to shoot a bunch... as opposed to loading up & shooting elsewhere. Only way to shoot an AR that quiet would be to go the route of .300 Blackout subsonic with suppressor, however that ammo is expensive & very hard to get.

For all the additions I have for my 15-22, I could easily have purchased another AR, however that would have gained me nothing... except for having another AR. The 15-22 gives me so much more... especially if your gun is used a lot & not a closet queen.

That's much of the same reason I'm now getting a 22. My ammo runs a little cheaper, but at approximately 50 cents a round, the wallet starts to feel it. There's no doubt that shooters fall into different categories for different reasons. Like I stated before, there really is no right or wrong response here. To each their own.

And, for the record...the MOE version does look dirty!

 

[BigWaylon]

I bought mine because my ARs were built with MOE lower build kits and sets of MBUS. I wanted the 15-22 to be as close as I could, which is why the buffer tube is full of pennies and nickels and the grip has some lead shot in a baggie.

I don't like fixed front sights, which is another reason I bought the MOE. My 15-22 has the same Vortex SPARC as my ARs.

No regrets.

 

[Decipher]

That's a pretty smart way to add some weight. Thanks for sharing!

 

[CharlesWA]

I think I paid about $50 more ($550+tax) for the FDE MOE than a regular 15-22 locally last spring/early summer (flash hider/25 round). Made sense to me at the time. Don't forget that you also get 3 rail covers (at least on the FDE) and the single point sling attachment point built into the lower.

Also, if somebody has link to a reliable source to get genuine MBUS for $40 a set I'm ready to order a set for my AR-15!

 

[CrazyFingers]

But, for the new buyer who doesn't know any better, they are buying "upgrades" that really aren't upgrades on this platform at all. Therefore, the accessories are a "rip-off" to those who think they're getting a performance advantage over the original offering.

Actually, there are several specific advantages to the MOE gear that are, in fact, genuine upgrades to the base rifle. Whether those upgrades are worth it to you is your decision and requires the buyer to do his homework. Someone who purchases a firearm without understanding exactly what they're getting and why gets no sympathy from me.

The MOE grip does not have the A2 finger bump, which some people (myself included) cannot stand. It has texturing on the grip which can improve weapon control. Most importantly, it has integrated storage in the grip which the standard A2 grip does not have.

The MOE buttstock shields the release lever to reduce the chance of unintended activation and snagging, has several additional sling slots, and does include a rubber butt pad.

The Magpul MBUS are flip up sights which can be stowed when not needed. This provides a cleaner sight picture for unmagnified optics, which is relevant to some users.

 

[Decipher]

Great responses. It's much appreciated! I didn't realize the FDE gets the rail covers. I don't think the black one does, but that gives it a bump in my mind.

Charles, it appears the set I saw earlier are the airsoft version. I have a friend who got duped into buying these thinking they were for the AR. Truth be told, they are insanely comparable to my genuine AR MBUS and I would personally have no issue running them on my 15-22. The only way to truly tell the difference is mine use a flat-head screw, and his use a torx screw. They are stout and still very well constructed. Unless you're running them on an AR where the gas tube gets super heated, in turn transferring to the rail, the non-AR MBUS will perform just fine. To the untrained eye, they pass as the standard MBUS. You can find them on Amazon for $20.

 

[Vinney47]

I'm on the side of the 15-22 MOE is not for me. I like magpul accessories, but not particularly the ones the MOE comes with. I much, much prefer the MOE+ grip to the MOE grip. I prefer the CTR stock to the MOE stock as well.

If the MOE stuff it comes with are what you would put on anyway, or you are the type that isn't going to buy any aftermarket parts, the the MOE version is a good buy. Otherwise, it seems a better route to buy a standard version with threaded barrel and put the parts YOU want on it.

 

[gdnagle]

When I bought mine there wasn't a great price difference. That didn't matter to me as my AR's are Moe versions, and I wanted one to match as close as I could get. Only thing for me would have been it having a MOE handguard, which I can add when I get around to it. Am I sorry I paid the extra no. Would I do it again, as soon as I talk myself into buying another I will. For some the MOE also has a QD attachment on the receiver, which you can also add if you want to drill the receiver, which they like. If you decide to sell the MOE parts and replace with cheaper or what every you want, you will get your money back for genuine MOE parts. Black MOE doesn't come with the rail covers.

Everyone has an opinion I keep mine to myself and let others make their own decision unless asked. Sell your parts your not happy with and get some money back and enjoy the rifle for what it is. Worst thing a person can have is buyers remorse, didn't you notice these items before you bought.

 

[Taylor339]

I could have saved myself a lot of money if had purchased an MOE. Instead, I purchased the parts individually. Cost a lot more that way but I purchased mine a week or so after Sandy Hook during the height of the AR ban panic. Would I do it over again? Yep.

 

[joshv06]

I wouldn't say the MOE is a rip-off, but the base threaded version is such a good deal.

I've never seen the prices go so low. I got my 15-22 when I first started shooting in 2012 for 425 shipped. This was about low to average back then, it's amazing seeing it so cheap now. Maybe they can't drop the MOE version per their Magpul contract or something.

I would get the base threaded version, and add whatever parts wanted.