celticfisherman
Member
I noticed on another thread that a lot of guys carry more than one gun. What and how do you guys do so? And do you carry reloads for them as well?
More than one gun???
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photoman
Member
A belt gun and an Airweight in the other side pocket is the easiest way to carry two. If you get creative, it's rather easy to carry up to six Airweights. 
ACP230
Member
I sometimes carry two J-frames. Usually one M649 and one M38.
They are both .38s so the two Tuff Products Quick Strips I carry can feed either.
They are both .38s so the two Tuff Products Quick Strips I carry can feed either.
GatorFarmer
Member
I like to be able to reach a gun with either hand or under adverse circumstances. Or arm someone else if needed. There's lots of reasons, look for Ayoobs columns on back up guns. And zombies. Don't forget the zombies. Plus if you have kids, there will be a gap of a decade or so between when they can legally carry a gun and when they can effectively pull a trigger. Another reason for spares.
Common places for a BUG - pocket, ankle, should rig, on your armor carrier, and more than a few .25s in back pockets over the years for the old timers.
I tend to carry spare ammunition for my primary. Life is simple if your BUG can take the same mags or even same speedloaders. Examples being feeding a Detective Special with K frame speedloaders or the lovely pocket Glocks... Don't carry more than one type of magazine on your person that isn't compatible or bad things might happen. But you'd be unlikely to try to jam a speed strip into a Sig or something of that nature.
Multiple gun carriers are a mix, same as everyone else. Some have had an experience that led to it, others hope to avoid an experience by doing it.
Common places for a BUG - pocket, ankle, should rig, on your armor carrier, and more than a few .25s in back pockets over the years for the old timers.
I tend to carry spare ammunition for my primary. Life is simple if your BUG can take the same mags or even same speedloaders. Examples being feeding a Detective Special with K frame speedloaders or the lovely pocket Glocks... Don't carry more than one type of magazine on your person that isn't compatible or bad things might happen. But you'd be unlikely to try to jam a speed strip into a Sig or something of that nature.
Multiple gun carriers are a mix, same as everyone else. Some have had an experience that led to it, others hope to avoid an experience by doing it.
Glock 'em down
Member
I carry a Glock model 22 on the hip, usually in a Galco "Combat Master" pancake holster and a Smith & Wesson 442 in the left front pocket in a Galco "Pocket Protector" holster...
Every. Single. Day.
I also carry at least one spare mag for the Glock 22 and a Bianchi Speed Strip in the right front pocket for the J frame.
Don't forget a tactical folder as well as a Surefire flashlight...or two.
I carry a Surefire G2 with my spare G22 mag in a Galco "MFP" (Mag Flashlight Paddle) and a Surefire L4 "Digital Lumamax" clipped inside my right front pocket. The flashlight is probably the most common forgotten tool in the EDC/CCW package, but yet, it can be the most vital.
You can't shoot what you can't see.
Every. Single. Day.
I also carry at least one spare mag for the Glock 22 and a Bianchi Speed Strip in the right front pocket for the J frame.
Don't forget a tactical folder as well as a Surefire flashlight...or two.
I carry a Surefire G2 with my spare G22 mag in a Galco "MFP" (Mag Flashlight Paddle) and a Surefire L4 "Digital Lumamax" clipped inside my right front pocket. The flashlight is probably the most common forgotten tool in the EDC/CCW package, but yet, it can be the most vital.You can't shoot what you can't see.
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cmort666
Member
I'm testing a new pocket holster (copies of which I hope to sell in the future). Last week I carried it around, but also carried my Glock 19 as a backup.
Most other times, it's just one gun for me.
Most other times, it's just one gun for me.
I do it sometimes. Larger gun on belt, BUG in Kramer Confidant shirt holster. This is a fantastic holster. Total comfort and concealability and fairly quick access. I have been using it almost exclusively in the warmer weather.
Recently I carried my M66 2 1/2" on the belt and my M340PD in the Kramer for 19 hours straight in total comfort. Reloads were Bianchi Speed Strips. I have also used this system to carry a Glock M23 and M27, with a spare M22 magazine on the left side of the shirt holster.
Recently I carried my M66 2 1/2" on the belt and my M340PD in the Kramer for 19 hours straight in total comfort. Reloads were Bianchi Speed Strips. I have also used this system to carry a Glock M23 and M27, with a spare M22 magazine on the left side of the shirt holster.
badge 851
US Veteran
I carry a snub nose K frame 357 Magnum loaded w/357 Magnum ammunition behind my hip. BUG is a five shot J frame in my pocket. ALL RELOADS are 38 Special carried in two Bianchi® Speed Strips™ in my right year pocket.
OK, I have to say this and say why. There is an article, an excellent article, by Massad Ayoob in the Aug, 2010, issue of Combat Handguns about innocent people going to jail in the aftermath of shootings.
I will NOT carry two guns for a reason. As a private citizen, you are not likely to even need one gun and less likely to have to fire it. However the law allows private citizens to carry a gun (most state permits say "a" gun) and I think the person should carry. But carrying two guns might present legal problems in the event a shooting does occur. It also doubles the chance of your gun(s) ending up in the wrong hands. I am not going to attempt explaining the added wear on clothing and the weight. The chances of gun malfunction is beyond remote with one gun and the chance of a person being able to get to a second gun if needed is even more remote.
As to losing your guns, a person with a gun out can get the drop on you before you can draw and fire. Once they have you in their control, they can take your guns, wallet and everything else. Remember this, the criminal knows what he intends to do and how far he is prepared to go to reach his objective. You do not and you are not expecting it to happen anyway.
A friend of mine was a police officer in Bossier City, LA many years ago. He was in uniform and driving a marked patrol car with overheads. Sadly he was killed in an auto accident. One of the first citizens to check on him also stole his sidearm. If a citizen is in an accident, who knows who finds or what happens to the gun being carried.
That said, I have a spare gun locked in my vehicle. But I do not want to stand before a Judge while a prosecutor claims I was looking for trouble since I carried two guns. Best trust me on this. Your legal fees will likely exceed your annual income if you are in a semi anti gun area. It does not matter that you were able to come out ahead, it matters you had two guns. The need for two guns went out with the old westerns of the 50's. The criminal charges and court prosecution (aka persecution) of shooters are still with us.
JMHO
I will NOT carry two guns for a reason. As a private citizen, you are not likely to even need one gun and less likely to have to fire it. However the law allows private citizens to carry a gun (most state permits say "a" gun) and I think the person should carry. But carrying two guns might present legal problems in the event a shooting does occur. It also doubles the chance of your gun(s) ending up in the wrong hands. I am not going to attempt explaining the added wear on clothing and the weight. The chances of gun malfunction is beyond remote with one gun and the chance of a person being able to get to a second gun if needed is even more remote.
As to losing your guns, a person with a gun out can get the drop on you before you can draw and fire. Once they have you in their control, they can take your guns, wallet and everything else. Remember this, the criminal knows what he intends to do and how far he is prepared to go to reach his objective. You do not and you are not expecting it to happen anyway.
A friend of mine was a police officer in Bossier City, LA many years ago. He was in uniform and driving a marked patrol car with overheads. Sadly he was killed in an auto accident. One of the first citizens to check on him also stole his sidearm. If a citizen is in an accident, who knows who finds or what happens to the gun being carried.
That said, I have a spare gun locked in my vehicle. But I do not want to stand before a Judge while a prosecutor claims I was looking for trouble since I carried two guns. Best trust me on this. Your legal fees will likely exceed your annual income if you are in a semi anti gun area. It does not matter that you were able to come out ahead, it matters you had two guns. The need for two guns went out with the old westerns of the 50's. The criminal charges and court prosecution (aka persecution) of shooters are still with us.
JMHO
TSQUARED
Member
I believe that I have a personnal responsibility to avoid problems at all times. Thus I hope I will never be confronted with the "Shootout at the OK corral". All I carry is my Kahr PM-9 - seven rounds of 9mm.
flop-shank
US Veteran
Well, I came very close to drawing my weakside front pocket gun last September. I'm not going to give up carrying a full size revolver, but sometimes the pocket draw is the way to go. Two guns gives me that option. Thank God I didn't need it that time. It did work however. When the knucklehead saw my left hand slide in my pocket he left for greener pastures.
I'm not going to jeapordize my ability to win a fight because of "shoulda, coulda, woulda" and what ifs. I'm going to try to the best of my ability to avoid trouble and prevail if I can't.
Then why carry a gun at all? Of course with two guns I can arm a third party. That doesn't work so well with one gun.
I've had no clothing wear problems and could care less about the weight.
Not true. As I pointed out before there is more than one gun to draw first and the situation determines which one it is. It also will take less time to draw gun #2 that reload #1 if needed. As far as malfs go, it was about two years ago that I took my Taurus 605 to the range to burn off the ammo that I had been carrying in it for the last six months. It went bang once and was locked up so tight that it took tools to get apart. It was an ammunition induced failure. While I might not have been able to pull of a New York Reload if that happened when the SHTF, I definately would have been SOL without a second gun.
Once again, then why carry at all?
Actually that's a situational awareness issue, not a multiple gun one.
Sorry about your friend, and you can shoulda, could woulda all you want, but the question still begs to be asked, then why carry at all?
Where it is much more likely to get stolen, but very unlikely to be accessible when needed.
Who wants to be stood in front of a judge, period? When there, the reasons for multi gun carry are easily explained.
Don't disagree at all. Even with a good shoot in a good area, expect the wringer and get the best lawyer available.
Actually, I think that coming out ahead is of paramount importance. Two guns can be easily explained.
Not true at all. There have been all kinds of shootouts before and since then where multiple guns have been used. Savvy and experienced gunmen almost always practice multi gun carry. They don't do so out of ignorance, they do so because it makes total sense and has saved many of their bacon.
Yes, but that's a very real risk regardless of how many guns one carries.
OP
celticfisherman
Member
Flop-Shank good points!
I'm weighing this option. It's legal for me but I am concerned if and when it was ever necessary that it might cause unnecessary issues later on.
However to have those issues you had to have survived the fight...
I'm weighing this option. It's legal for me but I am concerned if and when it was ever necessary that it might cause unnecessary issues later on.
However to have those issues you had to have survived the fight...
flop-shank
US Veteran
Whatever you decide, God bless all honest folks who carry!
Also, if you carry more than one, just as I do, be able to articulate why. You won't have to at the scene of a shoot. Just keep your mouth shut. You and your lawyer will have ample time to present your arguments.
Also, if you carry more than one, just as I do, be able to articulate why. You won't have to at the scene of a shoot. Just keep your mouth shut. You and your lawyer will have ample time to present your arguments.
The fact is you did not need to draw one gun, much less two.
A person carries in the attempt to gain the upper hand. Carrying two guns is a personal choice that may work to a disadvantage.
In the shootouts you refer to did not involve private citizens. It happens in LE work but not with civilians.
I practice with multiple guns. I also switch guns I carry, depending on the clothing, the weather, the need and the assignment I am on. I go into the worst of the worst areas and deal with those that will kill in a heart beat. A man I dealt with late last year has been convicted three different times of murder and I had to go after him on his turf with his buddies around him. I still have never felt the need to carry two weapons and I have lived over 40 years of doing so.
We will have to disagree on this issue and I wish anyone well that feels the need to carry two guns.
As to the wear on clothing, I have shirts that are worn thin in areas due from rubbing against guns. My seat covers in two vehicles are ragged from gun rubs. My belts are worn from holster wear. My back pockets get holes in them from my cuffs.
Much of the replacement clothing allotment officers receive is to replace clothes worn thin by guns.
GatorFarmer
Member
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Oy ve, there's so many inaccuracies in your two posts that I hardly know where to begin. First of all Mr. Ayoob, who's a member here, actually expends a lot of ink in favor of back up guns. Second, I'm guessing you didn't go to law school, did you? (I did, Thomas M. Cooley, 98 -00, never finished, but I went.)
Most citizen shootings never see the shooter charged. It happens sometimes, but it isn't common. Most people aren't sued either. In many states the law is in favor of the shooter these days, MI where Flopshank lives and where I'm from is one of them to the point that fleeing felons are still fair game (can be shot in the back to prevent flight).
ONLY New Mexico limits a person to a single gun. Every other state, carry a brace of pistols in a pirate sash if you want.
I've had to draw my .38 from my pocket. I had a winter coat on and couldn't get to the .45 on my hip. I later started carrying a second .45 in a horizontal shoulder holster so that this wouldn't happen again. And I still kept the .38 in my pocket.
I've also had people grab my gun hand whilst trying to pummel me, hence a latterly aquired habit of carrying a gun where my weak hand could get to it.
There's also a tendency for people to get shot in the gun hand when shots are exchanged. This can disable the primary weapon but doesn't put someone out of the fight.
As an aside, LEOs are civilians. If you aren't subject to the UCMJ, you're a civilian.
Private citizen have needed more than one gun many times. My favorite was the guy who needed a full auto M76, a CAR15 and a shotgun, and reloaded the CAR and M76. Google Beckwith incident, he fired something like 105 rounds in three minutes. Fun stuff. Another case, jewelers, involved no less than 15 guns being used to shoot up two armed robbers.
Another thing, and they should have taught you this at the academy. You never surrender your weapon. Period. That goes for everyone. I don't care if someone does have the drop on me. Drawing against a drawn gun is a least worst choice compared to compliance and being disarmed. Less than 17 percent of handgun wounds are fatal if one gets treatment in an hour and I wear a vest. I'd take my chances. I or my wife can patch up most non immediately lethal GSWs enough to be stabilized. Getting shot sucks, falling into someone's hands... probably going to be worse - Wichita Massacre etc.
On the off chance that a primary weapon is snatched or one is disarmed, then a number of people have saved themselves thanks to back up guns.
And if I'm dead in a car accident, then it doesn't matter if they stole one gun or a hundred from me. I'm dead. Oh well.
I've only ever damaged one sport coat via carrying. A sharp spot on the hammer of my BHP snagged the lining. That's it. Never wore anything out carrying a weapon.
Weight? Three J frames only weigh in as much as one steel 1911, and I've carried a steel 1911 and BUGs without problems. People shell out perfectly good money to join gymns and sweat riding bikes that go nowhere, the average American isn't going to be hurt carrying a few pounds of gear. For someone fit, mobility isn't impaired until more than 1/3 of body weight is carried. I'd need to be wearing tac armor with plates and carrying an M4, mags, sidearm, and water before I'd start worrying about weight.
Oy ve, there's so many inaccuracies in your two posts that I hardly know where to begin. First of all Mr. Ayoob, who's a member here, actually expends a lot of ink in favor of back up guns. Second, I'm guessing you didn't go to law school, did you? (I did, Thomas M. Cooley, 98 -00, never finished, but I went.)
Most citizen shootings never see the shooter charged. It happens sometimes, but it isn't common. Most people aren't sued either. In many states the law is in favor of the shooter these days, MI where Flopshank lives and where I'm from is one of them to the point that fleeing felons are still fair game (can be shot in the back to prevent flight).
ONLY New Mexico limits a person to a single gun. Every other state, carry a brace of pistols in a pirate sash if you want.
I've had to draw my .38 from my pocket. I had a winter coat on and couldn't get to the .45 on my hip. I later started carrying a second .45 in a horizontal shoulder holster so that this wouldn't happen again. And I still kept the .38 in my pocket.
I've also had people grab my gun hand whilst trying to pummel me, hence a latterly aquired habit of carrying a gun where my weak hand could get to it.
There's also a tendency for people to get shot in the gun hand when shots are exchanged. This can disable the primary weapon but doesn't put someone out of the fight.
As an aside, LEOs are civilians. If you aren't subject to the UCMJ, you're a civilian.
Private citizen have needed more than one gun many times. My favorite was the guy who needed a full auto M76, a CAR15 and a shotgun, and reloaded the CAR and M76. Google Beckwith incident, he fired something like 105 rounds in three minutes. Fun stuff. Another case, jewelers, involved no less than 15 guns being used to shoot up two armed robbers.
Another thing, and they should have taught you this at the academy. You never surrender your weapon. Period. That goes for everyone. I don't care if someone does have the drop on me. Drawing against a drawn gun is a least worst choice compared to compliance and being disarmed. Less than 17 percent of handgun wounds are fatal if one gets treatment in an hour and I wear a vest. I'd take my chances. I or my wife can patch up most non immediately lethal GSWs enough to be stabilized. Getting shot sucks, falling into someone's hands... probably going to be worse - Wichita Massacre etc.
On the off chance that a primary weapon is snatched or one is disarmed, then a number of people have saved themselves thanks to back up guns.
And if I'm dead in a car accident, then it doesn't matter if they stole one gun or a hundred from me. I'm dead. Oh well.
I've only ever damaged one sport coat via carrying. A sharp spot on the hammer of my BHP snagged the lining. That's it. Never wore anything out carrying a weapon.
Weight? Three J frames only weigh in as much as one steel 1911, and I've carried a steel 1911 and BUGs without problems. People shell out perfectly good money to join gymns and sweat riding bikes that go nowhere, the average American isn't going to be hurt carrying a few pounds of gear. For someone fit, mobility isn't impaired until more than 1/3 of body weight is carried. I'd need to be wearing tac armor with plates and carrying an M4, mags, sidearm, and water before I'd start worrying about weight.
Hi:
I have ALWAYS carried two (2) handguns. (On Duty/Off Duty)
Full size Revolver and a BUG-Both same caliber-with extra ammo.
Last of my career I had to carry a Agency issued Semi-Auto. I still carried a BUG Revolver w/ extra ammo.
Now as a "Retiree" (too old to fight or run) I CCW a Semi-Auto and a Revolver. Extra ammo for both.
Jimmy
I have ALWAYS carried two (2) handguns. (On Duty/Off Duty)
Full size Revolver and a BUG-Both same caliber-with extra ammo.
Last of my career I had to carry a Agency issued Semi-Auto. I still carried a BUG Revolver w/ extra ammo.
Now as a "Retiree" (too old to fight or run) I CCW a Semi-Auto and a Revolver. Extra ammo for both.
Jimmy
You guessed wrong. Paul M. Hebert Law Center and I finished.
And to add to this, I do not care who suggests what. I have the highest respect for Mr Ayoob and you have to remember he earns a lot of money testifying in court during shooting cases. I spend a lot of time and earn a fair amount in court as well.
Many shooting cases do not end up in court simply because a Homeowners Insurance policy paid limits in a civil case. Many more shooters get charged on some type of nit picking charge. I had a case about 15 yrs ago where a man accidentally shot himself with a defective shotgun and the DA tried to charge him with Wrongfully discharging a firearm. I would say most do not attract a lot of attention. The clear cut self defense cases never get attention of the DA. But the ones that are questionable gather a lot of attention when the injured or family members of the deceased push it. This is especially true with police officers. They have justifiable shootings and still get prosecuted. Many have had to fight lengthy court battles in both civil and criminal cases as well as being placed on indefinite departmental leave.
"And if I'm dead in a car accident, then it doesn't matter if they stole one gun or a hundred from me. I'm dead. Oh well."
And you will have aided another illegal gun being on the street.
As to training, I train officers. I am considered an expert in crime and accident reconstruction. I testify in criminal and civil cases. Firearms is just one area of my expertise and that is narrowed to proper use. Many of the cases I am called in across the country are firearm injury or death cases that involve wrongful or criminal use. My engineering training taught me what took place and my law training taught me what the law requires to convict, release or award. My MBA taught me how to lose money while doing all of the above.
Again, we can agree to disagree and I wish you the best in any which way you want to carry or use. As the great article by Mr Ayoob showed, people go to jail for using their guns during justified circumstances. I would love to see it never happen to anyone. However I have seen people legally use a gun in deadly force situations but still be charged on a technical issue. I am not going to tell anyone how to carry. That is a personal decision.
Now as to how the courts look at things across the US, there are different laws in different locations but I do not have to go to Las Vegas to gamble. I just have to go to court. There is no way to second guess a decision or a jury.
And you will have aided another illegal gun being on the street.
As to training, I train officers. I am considered an expert in crime and accident reconstruction. I testify in criminal and civil cases. Firearms is just one area of my expertise and that is narrowed to proper use. Many of the cases I am called in across the country are firearm injury or death cases that involve wrongful or criminal use. My engineering training taught me what took place and my law training taught me what the law requires to convict, release or award. My MBA taught me how to lose money while doing all of the above.
Again, we can agree to disagree and I wish you the best in any which way you want to carry or use. As the great article by Mr Ayoob showed, people go to jail for using their guns during justified circumstances. I would love to see it never happen to anyone. However I have seen people legally use a gun in deadly force situations but still be charged on a technical issue. I am not going to tell anyone how to carry. That is a personal decision.
Now as to how the courts look at things across the US, there are different laws in different locations but I do not have to go to Las Vegas to gamble. I just have to go to court. There is no way to second guess a decision or a jury.
this is an interesting problem. i think it comes down to what a person is comfortable with. personally, i never go with a single firearm and never have in almost 40yrs. never needed more than one but would rather have it and not need it than not have it in the first place. would rather have to explain the need than have a toe tag. that will happen soon enough.
