Morning thoughts: Popular Leather & Wait Times ....

[Data]

No garbage I can assure you that! It’s a big difference for me going from a 3 inch king cobra belt scabbard horsehide to a 4 in K frame 1791 scabbard cow leather. Much thicker and heavier ( holster alone I mean ). I almost Forget the Kramer is there. The 1791 after 5-6 hours is getting ready to come off ( not that’s it’s a bad piece at all) the horsehide is like a kydex… for the discerning gentleman

I think you are correct when it comes to Kramer products. Apparently, they are quite popular with the big shots from what I am reading. That is a good testament to Kramer's quality and innovation, etc. ... and makes for good endorsement as well.

 

[s&wchad]

Have you tried the Del Fatti PH? If so, can you comment on it compares to the MS or Kramer? Thanks.

The only Del Fatti products I have are a belt and an HK P7M8 holster. The guns became too valuable to carry and the belt shrunk and doesn't fit me any more.

Matt is a member here and his products are top notch and very desirable. He's so backed up, he's not even taking orders.

This should put them in perspective...

 

[brianfede]

The only Del Fatti products I have are a belt and an HK P7M8 holster. The guns became too valuable to carry and the belt shrunk and doesn't fit me any more.

Matt is a member here and his products are top notch and very desirable. He's so backed up, he's not even taking orders.

This should put them in perspective...

I have his PH holster..... haven't found anything close to being as nice.

 

[Data]

@ Brianfede

Looks to be a really nice holster. Do you carry this holster via appendix region? As for my personal preference, I like pocket carry only when it comes to the J Frame. I do carry appendix, but that space is reserved for the Glock 17 and a spare mag.

 

[Data]

The only Del Fatti products I have are a belt and an HK P7M8 holster. The guns became too valuable to carry and the belt shrunk and doesn't fit me any more.

Matt is a member here and his products are top notch and very desirable. He's so backed up, he's not even taking orders.

This should put them in perspective...

Good post. I am grateful that these top notch makers are still in business... and didn't fizzle out of fashion. I feel very lucky to have my two Kramer pocket holsters.

 

[Shoebox1.1]

So I ordered my Trr8 belt scabbard from Kramer aug1 2023. Has been 26 weeks if my math is right. I just called and she said I’m being made right now and should ship next week. So 10 weeks past the “14-16” week estimate

 

[BillBro]

Try Brigade Leather or DelFatti and their 2 or 3 year wait times, not to mention their prices.
Yes, absolutely, the best leather work seen anywhere but jeez, come on.

 

[biku324]

Quality takes time. All but one of my holsters are El Paso Saddlery, and I had to wait from a few weeks to a couple of months for each. They make'em when you buy'em unless they are for really common models.

 

[rednichols]

Quality takes time. All but one of my holsters are El Paso Saddlery, and I had to wait from a few weeks to a couple of months for each. They make'em when you buy'em unless they are for really common models.

I hate to be pedantic but it's not 'quality' that's taking time, it's that you're buying from tiny makers who refuse to gear up production. All gunleather makers were tiny before Bianchi in '66, whose biggest contribution to gunleather was not innovation in holsters but rather innovation in distribution: he created the dealer model that put gunleather in stores so that every man could buy one on the spot.

That's all gone now, because dealers don't pay their bills timely. Have a look at the D&B reports for the likes of Galco as I have; how does one pay suppliers on time when dealers don't pay on time? Last time I visited dealers was 2015 and I encountered a shocking state of affairs: no inventory with the salesmen all clustered around the handguns from which I almost had to forcefully drag them.

Gunleather sales today are all online, even from so-called distributors. Which then means the buyer never holds the holster in his hand until well after the sale, and isn't truly informed about if it is the best performing choice he could have made, or not.

One can't blame the likes of Sparks except for making the same-old, same-old for a half century, for staying small. What these companies can't supply simply falls off into the wilderness. But it does create competitors by making demand but letting other companies fill it.

What's on their side? Buyers want the brand, for bragging rights, it's unlikely they know 'first quality' from 'second quality' because it's performance that makes the difference, not leather finish or hand tooling. Even gun writers don't focus on performance, they look to see if the stitching is straight!

 

[Old cop]

I’ve been using a Blue Force Gear pocket holster for a little over a year & found it to the the thinnest, lightest on the market. It doesn’t print carrying a J Frame even in the thinnest dress slacks.

 

[StrawHat]

There are quite a few leatherworkers on this forum who would be willing to build what you want.

Kevin

 

[chief38]

IMHO the reason Kramer's wait time has increased is because they are simply the best there is for CCW/EDC and in huge demand. QC is tops and they don't comprise, so quality takes time. That's a bold statement and only my personal opinion, but after using their products exclusively for EDC over decades, I would not consider using anything else! OK - the wait time sucks, but once you get it you won't care. ONLY order the Horsehide!

BTW, I have no affiliation with them and they wouldn't know me if they ran me over - so this is just my honest assessment.

 

[Shoebox1.1]

It took 6 months but worth it!!!!!! Perfection!! Kramer for the win! Again!

 

[smitty_bs]

So I keep hearing about certain special forces using Kramer horsehide holsters. Which version do the use - the belt scabbard pancake? Or the vertical drop scabbard? I'm just curious.

 

[Revoman]

It took 6 months but worth it!!!!!! Perfection!! Kramer for the win! Again!

Shoebox,

I really like the leather, but what can you tell me about the grips? Material. maker etc.?

Thanks,
Jay

 

[Shoebox1.1]

They are Boone trading company simulated ivory. Highly recommend them. Great feel, good mom and pop company

 

[Shoebox1.1]

So I keep hearing about certain special forces using Kramer horsehide holsters. Which version do the use - the belt scabbard pancake? Or the vertical drop scabbard? I'm just curious.

I would assume the drop? But I don’t know

 

[Magnum_PI]

I have used a couple of Milt Sparks in the past, bought from sellers that had stock and immediately shipped. Nice stuff, but I refuse to wait for CRAZY LONG times. That's just me.

I've used Kramer. TOP NOTCH and I like the Horsehide.

I do recommend Mika for pocket holsters. Not bad wait time, good price, good guy.

I will also use Galco at times.

At the end of the day, life is too short and I'm not a waiting kinda guy.

 

[Shoebox1.1]

I have a new 624 that needs a holster but I don’t know if I can use Kramer again ( I’d like to) but this last one took 10 weeks over the 16 weeks and it’s not as nice as my other 4. Like it was rushed

 

[Model 15-4ever]

Over the decades, I've used many of the "boutique" makers with often long waits: Milt Sparks, Kramer, El Paso Saddlery, Lobo, Sideguard, Rusty Sherrick, Andrews, Bell Charter Oak, Alessi and Mitch Rosen. Plus many other smaller and/or less well-known shops.

Holsters are very individual. Put three people in a room and they couldn't agree on any particular one. Can't really criticize anyone's particular choice, but I could point out some good features or issues that get overlooked in the hoopla created because some gun guy somewhere was using one.

In my experience of 45 years of daily pistol packing, there is ZERO correlation between price/wait and suitability of a holster. You can pay a lot and wait a long time to have "that", and not have anything that is necessarily any better than a readily available model, unless bragging rights are important to you. "I got the unobtainable Brand X!". Frankly, not impressed.

Eg. You can wait a long time for leather pocket holster, and if that suits you, well that's fine. But I wouldn't give you two plugged nickels for a leather pocket holster, that doesn't perform as well as a $30 DeSantis nylon job.

One boutique maker - not to be named - sent me a holster/mag pouch set that I waited a several months for, and the result was not what was pictured and wasn't anything better than you could find today on amazon. Such are the travails common at for smaller shops (that's why you are waiting), where the owner/operator gets tired/cranky/old/distracted/drunk/sick, or some key employee leaves, and everything suffers.

I've been to the DeSantis factory numerous times, and the holsters leaving that shop will be consistent regardless of who is there, or not there, on any given day.

Having said all that... I have two Milt Sparks mag pouches in horsehide that I have been using continuously for 40+ years and they are as good now as they were then. Of course, he no longer sells that model.

I have a Lobo Offset IWB which was well worth the wait and price. Mitch Rosen gets just about everything right on a concealment OWB belt holster. El Paso Saddlery is quality if you prefer historical and lots of stiff leather. I have a bunch of Sideguard holsters and they are excellent.

Just about everything else... it's Safariland (tactical), or Don Hume/DeSantis (default). I am well past the day when I will wait more than a month for a holster, when there are so many readily available good choices.

To each his or her own.