MP 15-22, a good buy?

[deanrowski]

After reading 15 pages of THIS, I am going to brave the snow and cold here in western colo. and go shoot my new 15-22 so I can send it back as soon as possible, Because SUMMER is just around the corner and I would like it to be a RELIABLE companion by then!!!! LOL!!!

 

[LifeInPa]

My "conspiracy theory" on this problem is that the ammo is slightly out of spec and larger than spec in case diameter. We are just talking .001s here. Different lots of ammo can vary just a bit, especially when shooting the bulk packs.

If you will take some time and read other rimfire forums, you will find that no manufacturer of the semi auto rimfires in this price range have all their products give 100% trouble free operation.

I had no idea that such a slight difference can cause so many problems, thanks.

There's a "vast" difference in cartridge overall legth based on the four sample lots I have on hand. Federal 40gr Target round nose is the longest and requires a lot of attention to detail to load.

-- Chuck

I don't understand how they can make the same type of ammo but it varies by so much.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

LifeInPa,

Beck and Chuck are 100% right.

But that really does not explain the 15-22. Flat out... the 15-22 is a disappointment, IMO. Feed ramps cracking off... extractors snapping.... ejectors failing.... and accuracy on par with a slingshot.... And all this from a rifle with a "match grade barrel" for $500.... puuuuuulllllleeeeze. You have every right to kick and scream over what can properly be described as a POS compred to competitors. You gotta like the style enough to put up with the horrible substance. If not, trade it.

 

[chuck s]

Poor accuracy?

Mine is more than happy to keep 90% rounds in a 9" circle at 50 yards with a 4MOA red dot sight. Standing. Non supported. Rapid fire at (say) 100 rounds per minute.

I've not benchrested the critter.

-- Chuck

 

[LifeInPa]

LifeInPa,

Beck and Chuck are 100% right.

But that really does not explain the 15-22. Flat out... the 15-22 is a disappointment, IMO. Feed ramps cracking off... extractors snapping.... ejectors failing.... and accuracy on par with a slingshot.... And all this from a rifle with a "match grade barrel" for $500.... puuuuuulllllleeeeze. You have every right to kick and scream over what can properly be described as a POS compred to competitors. You gotta like the style enough to put up with the horrible substance. If not, trade it.

I am disappointed with the reliability, but the accuracy is impressive. This is the first firearm I ever owned, and only the third or forth I have shot. Even with those handicaps I can put more than a few shots into the center of a target from 30 yards with just iron sights. I am hoping that my last visit to the range was just a fluke. Maybe I had too much lubrication on the internal components and the cold weather helped it fail. I will clean the rifle up and take it out the next time we have 50 F weather.

 

[Thomas_H]

LifeInPa,

Beck and Chuck are 100% right.

But that really does not explain the 15-22. Flat out... the 15-22 is a disappointment, IMO. Feed ramps cracking off... extractors snapping.... ejectors failing.... and accuracy on par with a slingshot.... And all this from a rifle with a "match grade barrel" for $500.... puuuuuulllllleeeeze. You have every right to kick and scream over what can properly be described as a POS compred to competitors. You gotta like the style enough to put up with the horrible substance. If not, trade it.

The only thing I'm dissapointed with so far is the accuracy. I have not had any other problems yet. Not one FTF or FTE. But time will tell. My stock 10/22 easily outshoots my 15-22. But my 10/22 is not nearly as fun, nor does it make a good traing aid for my standard AR. All in all, I love the 15-22, but It could use some serious improvements in the accuracy improvements.

I really need to get myself a bbl nut tool so that I can take a close look at the bbl to receiver fit. I really have trouble believing that the bbl is solely to blame for the sub par accuracy. I'm almost positive there is room for improvement with a little tweaking.

 

[OneUp]

Accuracy problems? I thought I'd heard every complaint there is about the 15-22, but I hadn't heard about poor accuracy until now. I'm curious, how many of those complaining of poor accuracy are using some type of optic? I noticed immediatly when I picked up my 15-22 that the factory irons were junk. I've mounted a 2 MOA red dot and accuracy is supurb. Keep in mind the chamber in any semi auto will be a little sloppy, otherwise they won't extract reliably. The loose chamber *generally* leads to a decrease in accuracy vs a bolt gun. This is especially true for a rimfire.

What I'd like to see is someone mount a high end glass on the rail and shoot 100 rounds off a bench at 50yds. Then we'd see what the GUN (not the cheap canted factory sights) are capable of... Just my .02

 

[braden182]

Accuracy problems? I thought I'd heard every complaint there is about the 15-22, but I hadn't heard about poor accuracy until now. I'm curious, how many of those complaining of poor accuracy are using some type of optic? I noticed immediatly when I picked up my 15-22 that the factory irons were junk. I've mounted a 2 MOA red dot and accuracy is supurb. Keep in mind the chamber in any semi auto will be a little sloppy, otherwise they won't extract reliably. The loose chamber *generally* leads to a decrease in accuracy vs a bolt gun. This is especially true for a rimfire.

What I'd like to see is someone mount a high end glass on the rail and shoot 100 rounds off a bench at 50yds. Then we'd see what the GUN (not the cheap canted factory sights) are capable of... Just my .02

i've done this. i have mounted my second scope (6-24x now) on my 15-22. i'm going to shoot it and post results soon. i have several posts with pictures of targets shot at 50 yards off a bench with a 18x scope.

 

[Thomas_H]

Update!

A couple of days ago, I mounted my Leupold Rifleman 3-9x40. I was almost sick with the results. The scope came off my modified 10/22 that is capable of shooting of shooting 1/4" groups at 25 yards. On the 15-22, I could only get about 1-1/2" at 25 yards. I've never ever had a 22 rifle that couldn't hold under an inch at 25 yards with a scope and good ammo.

I had trouble believing the scope is the problem, so just a half hour ago I decided to take a closer look at the 15-22. I squirted a little rem oil on the outside of the bbl extension where it mates up with the receiver on the inside and gave the bbl a little wiggle. Sure enough, I could see some oil being displaced as I wiggle the muzzle of the bbl. I found a bent up aluminum handle from a broken snow shovel and made a makeshift bbl nut tool. Damn bbl nut offered no resistance whatsoever when I spun it off. So I'm thinking it was not torqued down to spec, or didn't stay torqued to spec. After taking it apart, I checked the play between the bbl and the steel sleeve it sits in. I must say that I'm a little surprised just how much play there is between the bbl and the steel sleeve in the receiver. I can see that if the bbl isn't torqued down properly, and if the bbl nut does not make physical contact with the steel sleeve when torqued down, it could have some accuracy problems. Honestly, I was getting better groups with iron sights when it was brand new.

While I have it apart, I'll get some pictures posted of the parts. I'll also see if I can sketch up a quick diagram on how the bbl, handguard, and BBL nut interface so you can see what I'm talking about.

I think my next two steps are:
1- put the scope back on the 10/22 and verify that there isn't a problem with the scope. It's been a few months since I've shot the 10/22, so I want to eliminate the scope as a problem.

2- Once I've verified there's not a problem with the scope, I'm going to put it back together without the handguard. That way I can make sure that the bbl nut is contacting the sleeve and try to shoot for groups. Not sure how stable I can get it on the bench without an handguard and not resting the BBL on anything, but it's worth a shot.

 

[OneUp]

i've done this. i have mounted my second scope (6-24x now) on my 15-22. i'm going to shoot it and post results soon. i have several posts with pictures of targets shot at 50 yards off a bench with a 18x scope.

Great, can't wait to see the results!!

 

[OneUp]

Update!

A couple of days ago, I mounted my Leupold Rifleman 3-9x40. I was almost sick with the results. The scope came off my modified 10/22 that is capable of shooting of shooting 1/4" groups at 25 yards. On the 15-22, I could only get about 1-1/2" at 25 yards. I've never ever had a 22 rifle that couldn't hold under an inch at 25 yards with a scope and good ammo.

I had trouble believing the scope is the problem, so just a half hour ago I decided to take a closer look at the 15-22. I squirted a little rem oil on the outside of the bbl extension where it mates up with the receiver on the inside and gave the bbl a little wiggle. Sure enough, I could see some oil being displaced as I wiggle the muzzle of the bbl. I found a bent up aluminum handle from a broken snow shovel and made a makeshift bbl nut tool. Damn bbl nut offered no resistance whatsoever when I spun it off. So I'm thinking it was not torqued down to spec, or didn't stay torqued to spec. After taking it apart, I checked the play between the bbl and the steel sleeve it sits in. I must say that I'm a little surprised just how much play there is between the bbl and the steel sleeve in the receiver. I can see that if the bbl isn't torqued down properly, and if the bbl nut does not make physical contact with the steel sleeve when torqued down, it could have some accuracy problems. Honestly, I was getting better groups with iron sights when it was brand new.

While I have it apart, I'll get some pictures posted of the parts. I'll also see if I can sketch up a quick diagram on how the bbl, handguard, and BBL nut interface so you can see what I'm talking about.

I think my next two steps are:
1- put the scope back on the 10/22 and verify that there isn't a problem with the scope. It's been a few months since I've shot the 10/22, so I want to eliminate the scope as a problem.

2- Once I've verified there's not a problem with the scope, I'm going to put it back together without the handguard. That way I can make sure that the bbl nut is contacting the sleeve and try to shoot for groups. Not sure how stable I can get it on the bench without an handguard and not resting the BBL on anything, but it's worth a shot.

Thomas,

Sounds like you found the problem!! Glad it wasn't anything major. Let us know what kind of results you get now.

 

[Thomas_H]

ok just so everyone can see what I'm talking about

(image not to scale, and I was too lazy to add the rail cutouts)

 

[27 Beck]

ok just so everyone can see what I'm talking about

(image not to scale, and I was too lazy to add the rail cutouts)

Great illustration. Sure would seem that a loose barrel nut could cause problems in accuracy.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Poor accuracy?

Mine is more than happy to keep 90% rounds in a 9" circle at 50 yards with a 4MOA red dot sight. Standing. Non supported. Rapid fire at (say) 100 rounds per minute.

I've not benchrested the critter.

-- Chuck

Yes Indeed- Poor accuracy. I'm not talking about banging away at cans and stuff or fast-firing at foot-sized targets -- I love the 15-22 for that. That's the kinda stuff I bought the 15-22 for. What I was talking about is -->rifle accuracy<--. And mine isn't capable of much, nor is anyone else's from what I have seen in the target threads.

S&W boasts a "match grade barrel". There is something seriously wrong with that statement, or something else seriously wrong with the rifle. The 15-22 is probably the least accurate rifle I have ever held.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

ok just so everyone can see what I'm talking about

What's the verdict? Did S&W forget to tighten the nuts and bolts?

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

The only thing I'm dissapointed with so far is the accuracy. My stock 10/22 easily outshoots my 15-22.

My observations too. I just don't get it. It's not the shooter's ability since everything I have seen posted here is pretty much the same. There's got top be a reason that this rife shoots on par with my .22LR pistols at 50 yards.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

ok just so everyone can see what I'm talking about

(image not to scale, and I was too lazy to add the rail cutouts)

I see it all. But I am clueless as to what it all means.

 

[tacticool22]

Barrel Nut

What is the torque spec for the barrel nut? I have the wrench, but I don't know what to torque it to.
Thomas H. that is a great cross section. Do you do that professionally?
These pics are from my last outing. The 12 gauge shell on its side is how it was laying. I was aiming for the center of the brass. The 12 gauge that is end on is missing the primer, because I shot it out. The other shells are 44 Magnum. I went from one to the other, bang hit, bang, hit, Etc. Oh yeah, 40 yards. This rifle does a pretty darn good job, once the barrel nut is tight. I just guessed at the torque, so I could get shooting.

 

[27 Beck]

What is the torque spec for the barrel nut? I have the wrench, but I don't know what to torque it to.

Haven't seen any "official" torque specs, but on one forum post it was 15 '/# and another it was 20 '/#.

 

[Tinstar]

I saw someone mention the GSG-5 when talking about the problems with the MP15-22, and how good the GSG-5 shoots. I have both and I can tell you...the GSG-5 had multiple problems in the Gen 1 and Gen 2 guns, of which I have the Gen 2. I believe the Gen 3 has most of the bugs worked out, but now there will be no more after this year due to a law suit. So, once the MP15-22 has been around as long as the GSG-5, I'm sure that it will be a quality item with the bugs worked out. Isn't it a shame...GSG-5 finally made right and then a law suit puts it out for the count. Go to the GSG-5 forums and you will see a list of problems that people experienced, mainly with FTE's. I personally like the MP15-22. I had the ejector problem, did the fix (slightly bent the ejector in), and no more FTE's. I would recommend the rifle.