Musings on Securing Firearms

[Ivan the Butcher]

Guns aren't the only things that need protecting! When I moved in the farm house, there was only one modern style closet in the whole house. it was a 3'x3' single door closet. I built a walk-in closet and the old closet was inside there. I put my Browing 30"x30" gun safe in that closet. On one of the shelves was a brief case with the documents of modern living, a second brief case dedicated to the wife's jewelry, and a third dedicated to T/C Contenders.

By being inside the outer closet there wasn't room for the standard "Spud Bar" to pry open the gun vault. And it was a very tight space for the diamond saw to cut the front off!

Unless a file cabinet is a vault like secure documents vault, a simple will enter faster than unlocking with a key! (Our office at work was burglarized, is how I know this. They are good for keeping small grandchildren out. But as one of my friends found out, drug addicted grandkids know what to look for and where to look for it! (and at that point, they bring helpers)

File cabinets are great for semi-valuable stuff like empty boxes, spare magazines, ammo, primers and powder. I had a friend with a shelf only gun vault full of bullets and powder, about $25,000 worth, and a locked, fire proof, 4-drawer file cabinet full of primers.

I'm not too worried about my passports, birth and other papers being stolen, but I can grab them when getting a firearm when bugging out from a mob or wild fire. (something to think about these days)

Ivan

A good gun safe is about 700 pounds of prevention, I'm not sure how much cure that equals!

 

[duane_wade]

I bought a 24 gun Winchester fire resistant safe for several reasons with #1 being some shady relatives knowing that I had firearms in glass door gun cabinets. It brought me peace of mind knowing that someone can't come in break the glass and walk off with them. The other is know I now have room for my firearms and legal documents.

The safe weighs about 900 lbs and is bolted to the studs and joists in my old farm house that is made of native lumber. It would take a forklift to rip it out.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[Chubbo]

Securing “your” firearms.

Onomea; You asked for our thoughts on you securing your firearms.
You seem to have little value, or use for your firearms, and an easy inexpensive solution to your conceived problem. Would be to just get rid of them.

Chubbo

 

[Rustyt1953]

Arlo, even though the boys are schooled on gun safety I keep my guns locked in a safe only accessible to Ruthie and myself with only one out at a time.

While I am up a mouse gun is in my pocket. At bedtime it goes back in the safe and a HD pistol goes in a lockbox in the nightstand by my head.

 

[Jessie]

I vote for a good large heavy safe bolted to floor per directions and in a corner that prevents prying on the door. Then get an insurance rider for your guns that covers all of them pretty inexpensively and call it done.
Great place for jewelry and important papers too.

 

[Golddollar]

Ivan

A good gun safe is about 700 pounds of prevention, I'm not sure how much cure that equals!

Only 700 pounds? This beauty goes 1100 pounds empty!

 

[Golddollar]

In addition to securing firearms, a safe offers other benefits as well.

My safe is fire-lined, and I store my passport and other important personal documents there. Anything too valuable to leave accessible to a thief (my Omega Speedmaster, for example) goes into the safe when I travel. The Goldenrod dehumidifier in my safe helps protect my firearms from rust and corrosion. And, as two-bit cowboy noted, a safe conveys peace of mind.

Depending upon how big a safe you need, there is almost certainly some place in your home where you can install one discreetly. And if that just isn't possible, if the only place you can put a safe in your home is in an open, visible place, most safes are available these days in some truly aesthetic colors, with options that will fit into almost any decor.

Peace of mind aside, the economics of firearms ownership make it almost foolhardy not to have one. My homeowner's insurance covers only $1000 worth of firearms against theft; the rider to insure all of my guns would cost several times the price of a good safe, and I would have to pay that every year. On the other hand, you can buy a good, quality safe, and have it delivered, for about the cost of a couple of 3" pre-lock K-Frames.

I think you have summed this up very well.

When my late father gave me his Trapdoor Springfield, that gave me the mental kick in the pants to upgrade from the locking cabinets (better than nothing) to quality bona fide safes. I figured that I had more chance to lose this gun in a fire rather than by theft. If I lost this gun in a fire, sure, with money I could buy another Trapdoor Springfield, but it wouldn't be the one my dad gave me.

 

[Golddollar]

I can't offer any new ideas to the mix; a safe is always my first answer. Although some are mighty handsome, they're not really meant to be easily accessible, aesthetically pleasing, living room furniture.

Only because they would fall through the floor. I think these safes are works of art.

 

[Bald1]

Yeah. I hear ya. I don't like the way they look. Don't like the idea of a heavy immovable large object in my living area. I am esthetically opposed.

Don't like the idea of trucking out to the garage every time I want to pull a gun out, either. I like hanging out with my guns.

And I also sorta balk at the price of a safe, tho I could afford one if I decided it is a good idea.

Only reason I would buy one is as Beemerguy puts it above: Do everything reasonably possible to prevent smash 'n grabbers from taking 'em out on the streets and causing havoc. I don't worry about the value, per above.

But, it does bug me that I would need to place and bolt down a large and expensive, unattractive (to me) object in an inconvenient place (because I don't want one in the midst of my living area).

Sounds like you don’t have a lot of guns. Buy a small safe and put it in a closet. I have a 47 gun safe in a regular sized closet with sliding double doors. Sounds like u could get away with a much smaller one. And if your like me you’ll be sticking all kinds of important paperwork in there too.

 

[Bald1]

Hey two bit, love that old yellow ford!!!!!!!!!

 

[Onomea]

Thanks, guys and gals, for all the comments. I appreciate them.

I've got a coat closet — the kind where you hang coats on hangers from a horizontal wooden bar, maybe six feet wide, wooden accordion doors — in our dining room, a two-door room we never use off our living room and entry hall. Musing on that for a convenient to access but out of the way safe...

 

[CB3]

IMO, hiding guns is unsafe. It is such a low level of effort that a prosecutor would find it easy to show negligence for a criminal case and the same for a civil case. If you can afford guns and ammo and targets and accessories, locking gun safes should be part of your budget. Having lost two “hidden” heirloom guns to a kid thief 50 years ago in less than two minutes, it will never happen to me again. Securing efforts are a first part of my shooting budget, a priority.

I do have a monitored whole house alarm. Police response time is four minutes.

However, I also have a multi-layer system. Layers outside; layers inside.

All exterior doors and windows are hardened. Motion lights. Doorbell cameras recording, front, back, side. Alarm system posting. Bushes away from windows. Exterior alarm horn.

My second layer of defense is a decoy. It’s a locked steel gun cabinet bolted to the floor and the corner studs in my garage. It cost less than $250. I keep my ammo and air guns in it. A tag on it explaining it contains flammable black gunpowder is a deterrent to cutting/torching. Prying would take a while. My good tools are locked up. The door opening trips a loud alarm.

Second layer is my four locked safes in the house in different places. They are Fort Knox (built here in town, seconds/blems) bolted solidly in place and have Simplex combination button pads for quick but secure opening. They are heavier steel and much more difficult to get into without the code. Three are quick access (no batteries though!) pistol safes and one is for a long gun. They have loaded guns in them.

Finally, I have the big, beautiful, fireproof heavy duty steel safe many here are afraid of buying because of cost and placement and looks. Mine is in my locked home office with a solid core, hardware reinforced door. It is also alarmed. It is bolted to the concrete floor and wall studs with heavy hardware. My long guns and other valuables go here, with the “Black Powder Inside” orange warning label visible outside. It’s in the basement and cannot be moved out of the house. It’s very handsome. Also very secure, and easily accessible.

Lest anyone caution me about sharing too much, this is not all. There are other layers of passive security against entry. There are other plans with secured areas, items and devices.

This was done gradually over about seven years, and the system continues to be an effective deterrent. We have had no break-in attempts in over two decades. If we did, perps would not have time to get much and would have a good chance of being caught.

 

[zwartepiet]

OP….looks like you’ve gotten several great solutions from many members.

You also shared what is also my biggest worry…..grandkids coming across a firearm in the house, and I won’t tell you what to do, but I’ll share a story.

One of my good friends is an NRA and CCW class instructor, and preached among other things, securely storing guns safely. His grandkids came for a visit ~ 12 years ago, and one of them found his unsecured edc pistol and discharged it, striking the other grandchild and paralyzing her below the waist.

I don’t know if I could go on after that, and I try to do everything I’m able to prevent it.

 

[Onomea]

Thank you, zwartepiet, for sharing that story. I appreciate it.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

My digs are not exactly roomy, as in a lot of room, but for the present occupancy, there are a lot of rooms. One of the rooms has a small closet which is not essential, or even important, to the purpose of the room. That closet is where my safe sits, bolted to a stud with the head of the bolt inside the safe. There is not much room left in the closet with the safe inside, thus there is not a lot of room for a thief to work on the safe.

BTW, it usually doesn't take much locked space to render a long arm safe, if you can easily remove the bolt or other essential action part and lock it up with your handguns.

If you buy a safe, you will use it for more than firearms, and so will your wife, and you will soon wonder how you lived without one.

 

[Onomea]

GA 1911, re the four fully loaded guns at all entrances, are they locked up or ready to go? If ready to go, and you are expecting visitors, do you put them in the safe?

 

[GypsmJim]

The thread on insuring firearms got me to reflecting again on why and how I secure my firearms.

By far my main concern about my firearms storage is preventing any possibility of access by guests, particularly children, in my home. Especially grandkids. (Got two little boys, so far. Kids are grown and gone — just the wife and me at home. Keep all the guns unloaded except my dual purpose EDC and nightstand gun.

Re theft, since my current meager accumulation has no particularly rare or valuable guns, my concern is with with smash and grab, in and out, hophead bad guys running around loose with my guns more than the monetary value of the guns. (My home coverage has a $1K deductible and guns are included.)

I think a professional burglar could likely open or carry off even a very good safe, given time, but I think a professional burglar is very unlikely to target my house. And the house has a monitored security system. And again, I don't worry about the monetary value.

Currently, when we travel, I stash my two rifles in the back of a closet, and I take my half dozen or so handguns (and a couple of Randall knives) and stash them in a safe deposit box at the bank. It's a mild pain in the neck to do this, but we travel rarely. Again, I do this safety deposit box storage because I don't want my guns in the hands of ne'er do wells.

For home storage, I'm thinking about buying a steel, wheeled lockbox with retractable handle. Would be easy, though, for smash and grabbers to make off with... Probably bust it open if repeatedly smashed on concrete. But, would be secure from curious guests of any age. I could keep doing the safe deposit box thing when traveling, or maybe just move the lockbox to a corner of the garage or stick it into the cardboard and paper recycling bin in the garage and throw some paper on top.

Or, maybe just put a small padlock on my range bag and secure the handguns in there and call it good.

Whatta you guys think?

Not rocket science. Not really a problem. If "kids" are in the house, why are they allowed to roam freely with no supervision?

My ammo is secured in the basement in a steel locker, secured with a padlock. The combo is known only to my wife...i.e., she doesn't know what it is but knows where to find it in my absence.

The guns (and all other valuables, i.e. coin collection stocks and bonds) are on the second floor in a room that is both locked and secured by an alarm system with a loud siren. As with the ammo, the wife knows where to find the key.

When my boys were 7 years old, they both got their first gun. The guns and ammo were locked up and they were instructed not to try to show them to local kids. It worked out fine, besides they never knew where the keys were.

My buddy was not so thoughtful. They traveled a lot. The wife always farcebooked to let everyone know when they would be gone. He had no secure storage. Kept the guns in the closet (I can't imagine how stooopid that is). The house was broken into and the guns were gone.

Its all about common sense. The world we live in isn't like it used to be.

 

[Onomea]

They always protect the four entrances to my home. You have 2 minutes to find the gun before the fully funded police arrive on the scene...

I take it that is a "no," the guns by the entrances are not locked up?

Do you ever have children in your house?

I don't mean to criticize whatever approach you have taken, but want to understand your thinking. That's why I started this thread, to understand how others view the issue of securing guns in the home.

As I said above:

I am not concerned about monetary loss if my guns are stolen. My home insurance covers me for anything stolen, including firearms, after I pay my $1K deductible. I do not have any guns of high dollar value or sentimental importance.

My concern is twofold:

• The danger of access by invited guests to guns that are not locked up. And especially the risk of access by chldren. And especially by my grandchildren.

• To a lesser extent, a burglar stealing my guns and causing harm or death to others with my guns.

Visitors are rare in my home. The only gun I keep loaded is my EDC/nightstand revo. When in the house and not on me, and no one but my wife and I are there, it rests in its holster openly on a shelf in our living room. At night it is bedside.

The comments in this thread have refined and changed my thinking on the topic. Even the comments that I found off target or that I disagree with are appreciated. It's been helpful.

I don't like worrying about it. When I get back to Oregon, I am gonna buy a safe, have it bolted into/onto an inconspicuous closet corner, and be done with it.

 

[BC38]

Way back (he's been dead almost 15 years) my friend had a half dozen hunting guns in a "Stack-on" metal "security cabinet" but he lost the key. It was in a corner and bolted to studs on side and back. It took me a good hour with heavy tools to bust it off and then pry the door to get in. A "snatch and grab" doper ain't taking the time. Better than a closet. Joe

^^^THIS^^^
plus they are relatively inexpensive.
I have a couple of Homak brand heavy steel security cabinets and a monitored security system that has a backup battery and a cellphone connection. NO thief is going to get into one in the 10-15 minutes it takes for the police to respond. Unless they happen to bring along a cutting torch.

 

[Sandman4delta]

Most of my Zoo lives in safes secured to the building and floor.
But for those that I want "Ready to use"
I am a big fan of V-Line safes which have a mechanical button based lock.
No batteries to go dead.
You can set for two buttons to be pushed together as one of your moves to open, which makes "figuring it out" near undoable.
I can set multiple boxes to use the same combo.
They come pre-drilled to attach to wall, large furniture, cabinet etc.
There is even one that fits between the studs so you can mount it in the wall and cover with a picture.