MY ANNUAL PSA FOR TOOLS AND PRECISE MEASURING INSTRUMENTS

[chief38]

When we really get into this hobby, we find ourselves in need of tools, instruments, gauges, measuring devises, etc. to maintain repair and improve our firearms. I am talking specifically about rules, feeler gauges, punch sets, thread gauges, bench blocks, micrometers, calipers, scribes, etc. The two premium American manufacturers of the past have always been Starrett and Brown & Sharp and suppose I can also include Luftkin as well.

I post this every once and a while to remind some of the older members and let newer members know that many of the tools, measuring instruments and gauges can be purchased on ebay for around the same or less than new Chinese or Indian imported and inferior products can. So WHY buy an inferior product when for about the same amount you can get the best ever made?? Availability on ebay varies from time to time, but don't forget to at least look - you will sometimes be surprised at how much a few bucks can buy!!



Chief38

 

[glenwolde]

Not all Starrett products are American made. Their digital calipers are Chinese.

Mitutoyo is Japanese and are excellent quality.

 

[Protocall_Design]

Lufkin, long since out of business, was once one of the top brands. Starrett was once the benchmark of quality, but has gone downhill over the last 30 or so years. The older tools of both companies are good quality. The 2 that have kept high standards are Brown & Sharpe and Mitutoyo. Those are the ones I look for.

You can get some great deals on used tools of all these (and many more) brands on eBay and Amazon. I have bought over 1000 items for my shop this way for cents on the dollar. I could never afford to buy all that stuff for new price. Chief38 makes a good argument in favor of getting high quality used tools.

 

[sceva]

Lufkin precision tools were bought by Pratt & Whitney. If you see P&W Mics they are the Lufkin design, and are great tools.

 

[jschmidt]

My Starrett and B&S measuring tools were inherited from my father including an engineers tool chest that is over 100yo. I value them immensely. For non-critical applications I do use a cheap digital caliper and for household uses a $2 plastic caliper that has worked well long past what I expected. But for anything that matters, it's straight to the engineers box

 

[Protocall_Design]

Lufkin precision tools were bought by Pratt & Whitney. If you see P&W Mics they are the Lufkin design, and are great tools.

Anything Pratt & Whitney is super high quality.

 

[sceva]

I collected many precision tools over my 45 years in Quality Assurance. I always bought the very best I could and it paid off many times over. As my career wound down toward retirement I gave away and sold most. I have one micrometer left, a little Starrett 0 - 0.500 mic with 0.0001 discrimination. I keep it as a reminder. My chest was a Gerstner Oak machinists chest size 080 the largest at the time, hand made in Dayton, Ohio. It was passed on to my daughter who uses it to store her treasures.

Buy quality; it will pay you back many times over.

 

[BMCM]

The majority of my metrology instruments are vintage Brown & Sharpe.
I regularly scan eBay for old stock and vintage B&S, Starrett, Compac, & Tesa instruments.

The sole digital I have is a old Fowler branded Sylvac caliper I bought new about 25 years ago. If it ever craps out I'll probably replace it with a Mitutoyo or TESA.

Aside from metrology stuff, I've acquired a great many cutting tools from eBay quite cheap. I've bought bucket loads of Niagra, Harvey Tool & others, cutters, end mills etc. in HSS, HSS cobalt and carbide for way way way less than industrial supply house prices.

Cheers
Bill

 

[DWalt]

I've gotten some steals on measuring instruments at garage and estate sales. One was a matched set of Starrett spindle micrometers from 6" to 1", for $10 around 20 years ago. I very seldom need or use those above 2". I have nothing digital, I do not trust them. 90% of my needs are fulfilled with a no-name 5" dial caliper. Even without a maker's name it seems very well made. There used to be a used tool store in Knippa TX, just east of Uvalde, that usually had a huge number of old measuring instruments cheap. Have bought a few items there. Unfortunately, it closed over five years ago. I always stopped to see what new stuff was in stock there, as I passed by that place frequently.

 

[chief38]

Not all Starrett products are American made. Their digital calipers are Chinese.

Mitutoyo is Japanese and are excellent quality.

I was referring to vintage tools and instruments and most of the ones on ebay are older models made in USA. Sorry if I did not convey that clearly.

 

[ameridaddy]

... Starrett and Brown & Sharp... and suppose I can also include Luftkin as well....
many of the tools, measuring instruments and gauges can be purchased on ebay for around the same or less than new Chinese or Indian imported and inferior products can.

Chief38

Chief, I agree, have used that method, but would like to add a caveat:
I have bought new or like new "Starrett" tools, specifically various squares, from eBay vendors, and found them to be expert ripoffs. Close examination revealed them to be substandard counterfeits, even down to the Starrett box and the standards certificate inside. The graphics on the box was a little blurry and colors off-register, same for the certificate, and the scales did not slide smoothly in the heads, and the ends of the scales were not ground smooth and square, but were as-sheared and out of square.

Look for good clear pictures, and I'd suggest buying something kindly used rather than take a chance on some "new" tool on eBay. If you want new, buy from a reputable tool house.

 

[Ruger 13]

I've been a Starrett man for decades……. I also use Japanese made mitutoyo calipers and micrometers. But………the measuring devices that I use most often is a 30's vintage B & S micrometer and a more recent manufacture B & S 6 inch caliper!

 

[chief38]

Not all Starrett products are American made. Their digital calipers are Chinese.

Mitutoyo is Japanese and are excellent quality.

I do own a Mitutoyo gauge set that includes a magnetic base and a bunch of attachments, extensions and swivels. Yes they are good quality but growing up with the Starrett and Brown & Sharp brands I often forget about Mitutoyo.

Again, my point being is that you can pick up real high end quality instead of the cheap imported stuff for about the same price.

 

[chief38]

Chief, I agree, have used that method, but would like to add a caveat:
I have bought new or like new "Starrett" tools, specifically various squares, from eBay vendors, and found them to be expert ripoffs. Close examination revealed them to be substandard counterfeits, even down to the Starrett box and the standards certificate inside. The graphics on the box was a little blurry and colors off-register, same for the certificate, and the scales did not slide smoothly in the heads, and the ends of the scales were not ground smooth and square, but were as-sheared and out of square.

Look for good clear pictures, and I'd suggest buying something kindly used rather than take a chance on some "new" tool on eBay. If you want new, buy from a reputable tool house.

ameridaddy,

Today there is nothing sacred anymore (not even tools)! China, India, Pakistan, Russia, etc. blah, blah, blah, knock anything and everything off! The Chinese have become experts at making fake Rolexes, fake car parts, fake tools, fake medicines etc. and it's hard to even tell the difference unless you are really into them. But as you point out, this has now come to our neck of the woods!

I am a fairly OCD kind of guy and perform my "do diligence" when purchasing something. I have been around mechanical devises, tools and such most of my life and understand how and where tools and instruments tend to ware and how they should look - which makes it a little easier to tell if the said ebay item is legit! Kind of like the wear marks on a Revolver from handling and firing it. If the item looks too good to be true, no wear marks, no oil or grease, no freckling (on carbon steel) it raises the question of authenticity. Sometimes you do stumble onto a new in box - old stick item and as long as the box style is period correct - then you might just have gotten lucky. Other times (like you said) knock-offs are out there.

In general when talking tools, precision instruments and measuring devises, nothing made today is near the quality of the examples made 50 + years ago and earlier. Yes - technology has advanced a lot, but the actual pride of manufacturing, quality, preciseness and packaging has gone "south".

 

[sceva]

I like Starrett mics but Starrett Dial Calipers are not my first choice. They have an open rack ( No cover like B&S or even Mitutoyo) and are prone to getting dirt and small chips in the rack teeth. They always had a gritty feel to me. Mitutoyo Dial calipere always seems softer and prone to wear on the jaws to me. My favorite Dial Calipers were Swiss made Brown & Sharps. Mine were $120 when a Mitutoyo was $60.00 but well worth it. They were one of the only tools I kept and I finally gave them to a fellow Forum member that needed to replace his broken one.

 

[AJ]

I have two Starrett measuring devices One is a Starrett Micrometer that is made in the USA. Got it out of a junk box at the LGS. The other is a Dial micrometer that a freind gave me. It was out of a repair shop on a U.S. Navy ship. Got it in the late 1980's and was "Made In China".

My Grandson was a calibration tech in the Corps. He now works for an aircraft manufacturer and does their calibration too.

 

[DWalt]

Many with USAF experience will remember the PMEL shop.
Precision measurement equipment laboratory - Wikipedia

 

[dwh]

First off my hats off to you true machinist out here. I grew in a family of machinist and had an uncle with a 20 employee shop. As a kid I thought that was the worst job in the world to stand there 8-12 hours day making the same thing over and over. Boy I wish I payed more attention. I was taught to never trust the dial calipers and to remeasure with the mics. Fortunately I have access to my dads tools.

 

[chief38]

Well, to do any extensive gun work you need to be able to measure precisely, fabricate and properly fit. Without fine measuring instruments, we're up the creek!

When it comes to tools, I truly enjoy using the best. I really take pride in working on project using the best tools I can afford. It just gives me that "fuzzy" feeling!

When I go to a friend's or neighbors's house to work on something mechanical, electrical or whatever, I take my own tools, 99% of the time as most of them usually have rusted up Harbor Freight or no-name tools that feel like garbage to me. I just feel good working with quality tools and instruments. Sorry if I sound like a tool snob - but I probably am - lol!

 

[AJ]

Many with USAF experience will remember the PMEL shop.
Precision measurement equipment laboratory - Wikipedia

Grandson went to the USAF Calibration School at Kessler AFB.