My Baby AR

[GL9CK]

Hi Girls and Guys. This is my first post on this forum, but I've been a lurker for almost a year. I bought my first gun last year which was an M&P9 Pro. This past weekend I bought my 4th gun, the M&P15-22 SPORT which happens to be my first 22. I call it my Baby AR. I immediately installed an inexpensive TruGlo red dot optic that I found at a different LGS.

The first 2-1/2 to 3 mags were full of FTE/stovepipes - every 1 to 5 rounds. I shot both Remington Golden Bullet and Winchester Super-X. The Winchester ammo was given to me by a kind, fellow shooter that I had just met because he saw I was struggling. Both types of ammo gave me issues. But after the first few mags it has been much better. It's still not as reliable as I'd like it to be, but this is my first 22 so I'm still learning the 22 plinker life. Now I have 5 or less FTEs per magazine. Sometimes I have none. It's really random. I'm hoping the issues work themselves out so I don't have to send it to S&W.

My question is about the charging handle. I would like to get an aluminum handle for the looks and simply because I don't like the feel of the stock, polymer handle. Would you recommend the MST or Tacticool 22 charging handle? The MST will end up being significantly more expensive.

BTW - don't hate me because of my username! LOL The S&W M&P9 Pro was my first gun, as I stated above, but I joined a Glock forum first (G43 was my second gun) and that was the first username to come to mind.

Baby AR

First target after quickly sighting in my red dot. Remember, I'm a new shooter (less than 1 year and even newer to rifles) plus I shake like a tree on a windy day. LOL

 

[RiverCity.45]

Posted in many threads are similar stories about stovepipes and the cure: replace the stock extractor with the Volquartsen extractor. Tends to cure the problem. Why S&W continues to produce rifles with this well-known problem is perplexing.

Sent telepathically

 

[RedNeck Jim]

I suggest not changing charging handles or any other parts until you fix the issues you are having. If you make one change at a time, it is easier to solve the problem. I might get one failure, of any sort, every 10 magazines or so. Most deal with the nature of the rimfire round itself not always wanting to go bang. My go to ammo is CCI standard velocity or Norma Tac-22.

As stated, I'd start with changing out the extractor, assuming you haven't bent the ejector by messing with it or snagging it while cleaning. I put a straw over mine before running the bore snake down the barrel.

Also, make sure you are loading your magazines properly so that the rounds stagger. My technique is to pull down on the load assist button after each round and then let it snap back. I strongly suggest you browse thru the past discussions, especially ones dealing with failures & proper cleaning. Lots of good info here.

 

[GL9CK]

Posted in many threads are similar stories about stovepipes and the cure: replace the stock extractor with the Volquartsen extractor. Tends to cure the problem. Why S&W continues to produce rifles with this well-known problem.

Sent telepathically

It is odd that S&W doesn't fix a known issue.

I have considered the Volquartesen extractor, but I am going to hold off at least for a little while to see how my rifle "breaks in". And, of course, I don't want to do anything to void a warranty in case I need it to fix my ejection or other issues.

I suggest not changing charging handles or any other parts until you fix the issues you are having. If you make one change at a time, it is easier to solve the problem. I might get one failure, of any sort, every 10 magazines or so. Most deal with the nature of the rimfire round itself not always wanting to go bang. My go to ammo is CCI standard velocity or Norma Tac-22.

As stated, I'd start with changing out the extractor, assuming you haven't bent the ejector by messing with it or snagging it while cleaning. I put a straw over mine before running the bore snake down the barrel.

Also, make sure you are loading your magazines properly so that the rounds stagger. My technique is to pull down on the load assist button after each round and then let it snap back. I strongly suggest you browse thru the past discussions, especially ones dealing with failures & proper cleaning. Lots of good info here.

I didn't think the charging handle would affect ejection, but it's a valid point not to change it.

I didn't do anything to bend the ejector. I used a brass brush and patches on an Otis pull cord not something like a bore snake. I do really like your straw idea though and will be borrowing it for the future cleanings.

It seems CCI ammo is very popular so I should try that.

I load my magazines using the same method that you do and ensure they are staggered. Good point. I did not know this at first. I only saw it after doing research after the issues during my first shooting session.

 

[RiverCity.45]

Void warranty? If the new extractor doesn't work and you need to send back to manufacturer for repair, just put the stock extractor back in. I'm not much of a believer in "break in" time for such problems. It should extract and eject perfectly out of the box so long as one is following the manufacturer's instructions for use. In this case, S&W urges only high velocity rounds, and lists several brands they recommend and others they urge not be used.

Sent telepathically

 

[jagular]

You shouldn't have to "break in" any firearm to get it to function correctly. My 15-22 (and the majority of others here) worked reliably right out of the box. Yes, you may get an occasional fte but that should be purely ammo related. If it were me, I'd send it I for repair by S&W.

 

[GL9CK]

Void warranty? If the new extractor doesn't work and you need to send back to manufacturer for repair, just put the stock extractor back in. I'm not much of a believer in "break in" time for such problems. It should extract and eject perfectly out of the box so long as one is following the manufacturer's instructions for use. In this case, S&W urges only high velocity rounds, and lists several brands they recommend and others they urge not be used.

Sent telepathically

Where is the list of recommended ammo? I didn't see one in my manual.

You shouldn't have to "break in" any firearm to get it to function correctly. My 15-22 (and the majority of others here) worked reliably right out of the box. Yes, you may get an occasional fte but that should be purely ammo related. If it were me, I'd send it I for repair by S&W.

I contacted S&W and they said to give it 500 rounds and if I still have problems I should contact them for a return label.

 

[GhostMutt]

It is quite alarming the number of ejection issues with the latest 15-22 sport model, but the numerous thread regarding fixes should help you out. Failing that i have heard very positive things about the VQ extractor...(i am waiting for mine to arrive). I have the old original one and the only problems i have are obviously ammo related. Find an ammo that cycles reliably and stick with it. Although any 22lr ammo is still subject to the odd bad primer.

Just a word on the change of extractor....if you do it, do it in an empty room (or pillow case or anything that will catch the spring and plunger...mess it up an that thing with launch into infinity and beyond). Regarding cleaning the only thing that need oil/lube are the bolt rails...sure you can oil the bolt spring but it does not really need it, as long as the chamber face, the feed ramp and the bolt face and firing pin recess area are clean of debris then failures should be minimal.

There are a ton of add-ons and go faster bits that can enhance your appreciation of the rifle. I would swap the charging handle purely for the feel, i would add a BAD lever for ease of use and would also recommend a new drop in trigger. Of course i speak from this side of the pond where centre-fire semi auto AR's are a no go, so you may not want to 'waste' cash on your baby AR...but these things added to my rifle and i enjoy shooting with it a lot more.

Welcome to your new addiction....loved the target pics, nice shooting for a rifle newbie!

 

[lateapex31]

Based on the photo the magazine is not being loaded correctly. The rounds should stagger every other but look at the picture, many rounds in a row all stacked on one side. That will cause feeding issues.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[Jayclimber]

I've had my 15-22 for awhile now and have yet to have any issues... You definitely need to watch the loading of your mags as a few of the other posters have pointed out...

 

[dlidster]

Invest in a McFadden loader and the cartridges will always align correctly in the magazine. The only down-side with this device is that it allows you to load your 15-22 as fast as you can shoot it. Allow for this in your ammo budget.

My 15-22 functioned perfectly out of the box with all ammo except for a batch of Winchester bulk (222, 333, 555, etc.) With a Volquartsen extractor it functions perfectly with everything. Invest $12 and ten minutes of your time. It's worth it.

Lightnin' Grip Loader

 

[Rick_A]

I recommend break-in with CCI Mini-Mags.

If it doesn't work with those it's probably broken.

Clean it thoroughly, especially the chamber. Lube lightly.

 

[radyoactive]

I bought a 15-22 about a month ago and after doing a lot of reading I changed the extractor before even shooting it. I also read about being careful when loading the magazine.

I took my 15-22 to the range for the 2nd time yesterday and out about 125 rounds through it. The first time out, I ran out of time and only got 25 rounds down range. I shot Federal Auto Match and CCI Minister Mags HP and I did not have any issues. It was a nice change from the 10/22 which always has a failure of some sort every magazine.

The 15-22 is probably the most fun to shoot of all the guns I own.

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk

 

[RiverCity.45]

Gl9ck,

On page 10 of my printed user manual is a list of ammunition for optimal performance, and on page 11 is ammunition to avoid.

I downloaded the user manual from the S&W web site to compare with the printed one I received when I purchased the rifle about a month ago. Sure enough, ammo recommendations not in the downloaded version.

For your consideration.

Recommended:
CCI Standard Velocity
CCI Mini-Mag
Aguila Super Extra Std. Velocity
Aguila Super Extra High Velocity
Federal American Eagle
Federal GameShock
Winchester Super-X High Velocity

Not Recommended:
Remington Golden Bullet
Remington Target 22
Remington Thunderbolt
Winchester Wildcat
All sub-sonic brands and types

Sent telepathically

 

[GL9CK]

Based on the photo the magazine is not being loaded correctly. The rounds should stagger every other but look at the picture, many rounds in a row all stacked on one side. That will cause feeding issues.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

That picture is from my first day out when I was unaware the ammo had to be staggered. That might be a reason for my FTE issues. Since then I have ensured the bullets stagger correctly after loading the magazine.

Invest in a McFadden loader and the cartridges will always align correctly in the magazine. The only down-side with this device is that it allows you to load your 15-22 as fast as you can shoot it. Allow for this in your ammo budget.

My 15-22 functioned perfectly out of the box with all ammo except for a batch of Winchester bulk (222, 333, 555, etc.) With a Volquartsen extractor it functions perfectly with everything. Invest $12 and ten minutes of your time. It's worth it.

Lightnin' Grip Loader

Thanks for the link to that! It's the first I'm seeing and it looks incredibly awesome! I definitely need one!

I recommend break-in with CCI Mini-Mags.

If it doesn't work with those it's probably broken.

Clean it thoroughly, especially the chamber. Lube lightly.

I did clean it thoroughly before shooting.

It's hard to find any 22LR ammo locally especially CCI. Today I went to a shop farther from my house. They only had CCI Standard Velocity in stock so I picked up a box of 500. I hope to try it out tomorrow.

I bought a 15-22 about a month ago and after doing a lot of reading I changed the extractor before even shooting it. I also read about being careful when loading the magazine.

I took my 15-22 to the range for the 2nd time yesterday and out about 125 rounds through it. The first time out, I ran out of time and only got 25 rounds down range. I shot Federal Auto Match and CCI Minister Mags HP and I did not have any issues. It was a nice change from the 10/22 which always has a failure of some sort every magazine.

The 15-22 is probably the most fun to shoot of all the guns I own.

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk

I'm surprised to see you had that many issues with the 10/22. I've heard it's one of the more reliable 22 rifles out there.

Gl9ck,

On page 10 of my printed user manual is a list of ammunition for optimal performance, and on page 11 is ammunition to avoid.

I downloaded the user manual from the S&W web site to compare with the printed one I received when I purchased the rifle about a month ago. Sure enough, ammo recommendations not in the downloaded version.

For your consideration.

Recommended:
CCI Standard Velocity
CCI Mini-Mag
Aguila Super Extra Std. Velocity
Aguila Super Extra High Velocity
Federal American Eagle
Federal GameShock
Winchester Super-X High Velocity

Not Recommended:
Remington Golden Bullet
Remington Target 22
Remington Thunderbolt
Winchester Wildcat
All sub-sonic brands and types

Sent telepathically

Thank you for sharing that! I knew I had seen a list like this somewhere at some point in my research on the M&P15-22. My printed manual does not have this list and after contacting S&W they told me they do not specifically recommend specific manufactures and simply told me to look for ammo that meets SAAMI standards. I'm glad to see that the CCI Standard Velocity ammo that I purchased today is on this list.

Thanks for all of the great feedback guys. I'm a gun newbie and I'm all about learning.

This still leaves my question about the charging handle unanswered though. Is the MST worth the extra cost over the Tacticool 22?

 

[trebor127]

Ahhhh yes the original question

Now that you have been pointed in the right direction for your

FTE issues.......and as RedNeck says do try one thing at a time

Alloy charging handles......Tacticool sell the 'Next level'

charging handle, looking like tacticool have had their logo

printed on to it.....the early ones had problems

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-15-22/456561-s-w-m-p-15-22-ambi-charging-handle.html

Now the MST handle i have 2 of the original 50 made by

KingMST,and in my opinion cannot be beaten for quality and fit

[NEW IN] MST15-22 Charging Handle for S&W 15-22 Rifles



keith

 

[GhostMutt]

I have a plinker tactical with oversized latch....works fine for me

 

[GL9CK]

It is quite alarming the number of ejection issues with the latest 15-22 sport model, but the numerous thread regarding fixes should help you out. Failing that i have heard very positive things about the VQ extractor...(i am waiting for mine to arrive). I have the old original one and the only problems i have are obviously ammo related. Find an ammo that cycles reliably and stick with it. Although any 22lr ammo is still subject to the odd bad primer.

Just a word on the change of extractor....if you do it, do it in an empty room (or pillow case or anything that will catch the spring and plunger...mess it up an that thing with launch into infinity and beyond). Regarding cleaning the only thing that need oil/lube are the bolt rails...sure you can oil the bolt spring but it does not really need it, as long as the chamber face, the feed ramp and the bolt face and firing pin recess area are clean of debris then failures should be minimal.

There are a ton of add-ons and go faster bits that can enhance your appreciation of the rifle. I would swap the charging handle purely for the feel, i would add a BAD lever for ease of use and would also recommend a new drop in trigger. Of course i speak from this side of the pond where centre-fire semi auto AR's are a no go, so you may not want to 'waste' cash on your baby AR...but these things added to my rifle and i enjoy shooting with it a lot more.

Welcome to your new addiction....loved the target pics, nice shooting for a rifle newbie!

Thanks for the info. I will be sure to keep that spring under wraps if I change the extractor! You know have me looking at the BAD lever or the one from Phase 5. Which trigger do you use?

I do have a .223/5.56 AR, but I think the M&P15-22 will get much more use because of the much less expensive ammo. But the 25 round magazines empty fast! LOL

Thanks for the kind words as well!

Ahhhh yes the original question

Now that you have been pointed in the right direction for your

FTE issues.......and as RedNeck says do try one thing at a time

Alloy charging handles......Tacticool sell the 'Next level'

charging handle, looking like tacticool have had their logo

printed on to it.....the early ones had problems

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-15-22/456561-s-w-m-p-15-22-ambi-charging-handle.html

Now the MST handle i have 2 of the original 50 made by

KingMST,and in my opinion cannot be beaten for quality and fit

[NEW IN] MST15-22 Charging Handle for S&W 15-22 Rifles



keith

Thanks for the link. I will read about the Tacticool 22 charging handle.

I found one MST. Are the first 50 a different design or anything like that?

 

[GhostMutt]

Thanks for the info. I will be sure to keep that spring under wraps if I change the extractor! You know have me looking at the BAD lever or the one from Phase 5. Which trigger do you use?

Just be aware that the lower is not the same as a regular AR. So if you get a BAD lever (magpul) it will need to be bent to make it fit the trigger guard and miss the mag release...NDZ Performance do a custom made SBR for the 15-22 which a lot of peeps have and gets great reviews, SBR Speed Bolt Release
I had a Magpul bent to fit because i preferred the look...not sure on the Phase 5, i remember looking at it when i was debating which to get, maybe someone can confirm if it fits or not....

My trigger.....ah...my beautiful trigger....the Hiperfire 24 C
Money very very well spent.

 

[trebor127]

Thanks for the info. I will be sure to keep that spring under wraps if I change the extractor! You know have me looking at the BAD lever or the one from Phase 5. Which trigger do you use?

I do have a .223/5.56 AR, but I think the M&P15-22 will get much more use because of the much less expensive ammo. But the 25 round magazines empty fast! LOL

Thanks for the kind words as well!


Thanks for the link. I will read about the Tacticool 22 charging handle.

I found one MST. Are the first 50 a different design or anything like that?

You will have to contact Craig at TQM to get the answer to

your question .......

MST Ambidextrous Charging Handle 15-22, Tactical Quarter Master.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-15-22/474939-mst-charging-handle-problems.html

The Phase 5 will not fit our 15-22's and as GhostMutt says the Magpul lever will need tweaking

to fit......Just go with the NDZ lever.......but remember one thing at a time haha

NDZ Performance S&W M&P 15-22 SBR Speed Bolt Release FDE

keith

 

[GL9CK]

Just be aware that the lower is not the same as a regular AR. So if you get a BAD lever (magpul) it will need to be bent to make it fit the trigger guard and miss the mag release...NDZ Performance do a custom made SBR for the 15-22 which a lot of peeps have and gets great reviews, SBR Speed Bolt Release
I had a Magpul bent to fit because i preferred the look...not sure on the Phase 5, i remember looking at it when i was debating which to get, maybe someone can confirm if it fits or not....

My trigger.....ah...my beautiful trigger....the Hiperfire 24 C
Money very very well spent.

Good info! Thank you! I thought the lowers were nearly the same. You saved me from wasting money.

The NDZ lever is nice.

I'll check out that trigger. Even the name sounds expensive. LOL

You will have to contact Craig at TQM to get the answer to

your question .......

MST Ambidextrous Charging Handle 15-22, Tactical Quarter Master.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-15-22/474939-mst-charging-handle-problems.html

The Phase 5 will not fit our 15-22's and as GhostMutt says the Magpul lever will need tweaking

to fit......Just go with the NDZ lever.......but remember one thing at a time haha

NDZ Performance S&W M&P 15-22 SBR Speed Bolt Release FDE

keith

Thank you for the info! You also saved me from wasting money.

I do like the NDZ lever. One thing at a time? What's that mean? LOL I'm an impatient engineer with what seems like adult ADD. I want it all and I want it NOW!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
A little update. I went to the range today and shot 100 rounds of CCI Standard Velocity. I did not have one single FTE/stovepipe or any malfunction whatsoever. So apparently my issues stemmed from me over-lubing the gun, me improperly loading the magazines or maybe it was the always polarizing topic called "break-in". Either way I am happy with the gun.

I wanted to shoot more of my Remington Golden Bullet, but it was extremely hot and humid outside and I wanted to get some shots through my pistols as well. I am going to try to shoot my Baby AR a little more this week.

Now only if I could shoot my M&P9 Pro as well as my M&P15-22...

 

[GL9CK]

I went shooting tonight. It was late and I wanted to focus on handguns so I only got 50 rounds through my M&P15-22. I used Remington Golden Bullet ammo and did not have a single issue. I'm very happy that my issues seem to have resolved themselves.

Here's my target at 25 yards. Looks like I need to dial in my reflex sight some more.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[GhostMutt]

Is that offhand or from the bench?

 

[GL9CK]

Is that offhand or from the bench?

That's from the bench. The foregrip was resting on a padded block of wood while I was sitting. No elbows or anything else were resting on the bench. I shake like a tree in the wind during an earthquake due to medications so you'd know if it was offhand.

 

[GL9CK]

Is lead nose ammo dirtier than jacketed ammo? What I mean is will I have to clean my chamber or barrel or both more often when using non jacketed ammo?

 

[GL9CK]

I shot 100 rounds through this gun yesterday. I had a ton of FTE / stovepipes. I was using Winchester white box - 36 grain, 1280 FPS copper-plate hollow points. But I haven't cleaned the gun since it was brand new. And now I have over 700 rounds through it including the ones I fired yesterday. I guess it's time for a cleaning.

 

[Pisgah]

Right off the bat I will admit to being a 63 year old coot whose better days are probably behind him. But even though I'll confess to being "out of it" when it comes to a lot of things that are considered "cool" today, I have to say that in a lot of areas I feel sorry for the younger generations.

One of those areas is that of semiauto.22 rifles. There are 3 .22 semis in my safe today. I bought my first one at the ripe old age of 13, a Remington Nylon 66 that I bought at a local hardware store. Oh man, was it cool, the coolest thing going back then, and it cost me the grand sum of $49.95, a price that even a 13-year-old could afford after a month's worth of cutting grass -- not only the rifle, but 1000 rounds of Remington hollowpoints, to boot! And the coolest thing -- to buy it, I just walked in to the store, pointed it out, and plunked down my money -- no adult required, no paperwork filled out. Over the next 10 years I shot the snot out of that little rifle. By the end of that first decade and a half, I sent it back to Remington -- not because it was malfunctioning, even though it had been through 15 years of the type of abuse that only a teenager can dish out, but because the guaranteed-for-life Zytel stock had developed a crack along one seam. To my neverending delight it was returned to me within 2 weeks, not only with a new stock but having been totally refurbished and refinished to absolutely-new condition! Now, 35 years and several thousand more rounds later it remains in nearly-new condition and sees action in the woods several times a year. You could probably build a battleship out of the cans it's punctured.

Next acquired was a little Marlin Papoose takedown. Came in a neat zippered case that will float if you drop it in water. If I recall, it set me back about $80. Against all odds, it has a superb trigger and is amazingly accurate, so long as you are careful when installing the barrel to tighten it down juusstt so with the supplied wrench. It's come along with me on many a backpacking small-game-hunting trip, and is one of the few "I'll never sell it" guns I own.

The latest member of the family is a Savage 64. This one came home with me a few years ago when Walmart had made the (since rescinded) decision to remove firearms from their stores. I was browsing through the sporting goods section of the local store and found it clearance priced at $79.95. I surely didn't NEED another .22 semi, but what the heck? These days, when plinking is on the agenda it is usually the one that comes out with me .

Now, why do I feel sorry for youngsters and their M&P-22's? Well, first of all, even if you were to factor in inflation, if all three of these were still available today I doubt buying all three of them at once would set you back as much as the one S&W. Second, I can honestly say I do not recall a single instance when ANY of these rifles has failed to feed, fire and eject with ANY ammo I have put through them. Third, again with ANY ammo, every single one of them is minute-of-squirrel-head accurate at 25 yards, and that is no exaggeration.

So, folks, when your dads or grand-dads finally shuffle off to the great squirrel woods in the sky, don't be too quick to get rid of all those cheap .22 semiautos you find in the closet. They might be your best chance of learning just what a good .22 is all about...

 

[GhostMutt]

As much as I am sure we all enjoyed reading that little slice of times gone by, times have changed.
The majority of folks on here, have little to no issues with their 15-22's (the latest batch being the exception) I for one am perfectly happy with my 15-22.

I think it is an excellent rifle and i can put 10 shots in a 1cm group from 25 yards just resting off my elbows and can get to less than an inch group off hand.

Out of all the semi-autos i have tried, i would not trade my 15-22 for any of them.

 

[GL9CK]

Now, why do I feel sorry for youngsters and their M&P-22's? Well, first of all, even if you were to factor in inflation, if all three of these were still available today I doubt buying all three of them at once would set you back as much as the one S&W. Second, I can honestly say I do not recall a single instance when ANY of these rifles has failed to feed, fire and eject with ANY ammo I have put through them. Third, again with ANY ammo, every single one of them is minute-of-squirrel-head accurate at 25 yards, and that is no exaggeration.

.22LR rifles can be had for much cheaper than the M&P15-22. The Ruger 10/22 is a great example. You can find those under $200. With the M&P15-22 you pay for the furniture and the "cool" factor.

I don't fault the gun for being unreliable if it's filthy like mine was when we shot it. If it's unreliable when clean, which it hasn't been outside of the first 2, improperly loaded magazines, then I would be upset.

As much as I am sure we all enjoyed reading that little slice of times gone by, times have changed.
The majority of folks on here, have little to no issues with their 15-22's (the latest batch being the exception) I for one am perfectly happy with my 15-22.

I think it is an excellent rifle and i can put 10 shots in a 1cm group from 25 yards just resting off my elbows and can get to less than an inch group off hand.

Out of all the semi-autos i have tried, i would not trade my 15-22 for any of them.

What are the latest issues with the current batch? The improperly aligned ejector?

 

[GhostMutt]

Just reading the posts from new owners, it seems something is amiss at quality and control at Springfield.