My epiphany on CCW guns
- Thread starter sipowicz
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Waywatcher
Member
Well, let's be realistic:
-The chances of ever needing a CCW are incredibly slim.
-The fraction of a chance which needed a CCW, and a J frame wouldn't suffice--smaller yet.
-The fraction of a fraction of a chance in which a J frame was insufficient and the likelihood that the outcome would be different based on equipment--negligible.
The chances that you will die of heart disease, cancer, or a car crash? Now that's something to worry about.
-The chances of ever needing a CCW are incredibly slim.
-The fraction of a chance which needed a CCW, and a J frame wouldn't suffice--smaller yet.
-The fraction of a fraction of a chance in which a J frame was insufficient and the likelihood that the outcome would be different based on equipment--negligible.
The chances that you will die of heart disease, cancer, or a car crash? Now that's something to worry about.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
Well put!!
Add on: How about a backup, extra mags and or speed loaders plus a blade to gut em with if swarmed?
Add on: How about a backup, extra mags and or speed loaders plus a blade to gut em with if swarmed?
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gwpercle
Member
It doesn't matter if you miss 5 times or 15 times. Only hits count, misses get you ...killed.
shouldazagged
Absent Comrade
I'm a percentage player, like Waywatcher seems to be. I carry a J-frame .38 Special, sometimes but not always with a speed strip reload. Realism? Fatalism? I don't know, but it suits my very quiet, retired-old-man life.
I'm sorry.... Well, maybe I'm not 
But every time this type of discussion comes up it reminds me of this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhe58xORWG0
But every time this type of discussion comes up it reminds me of this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhe58xORWG0
That's what I'm talkin bout!
ironhead7544
Member
It might just by my training, but I like to be able to make center hits at 50 yards. The smallest pistol I can do that with is a G26. I added a +2 mag bottom for 13 shots of CorBon 115 gr that goes 1260 fps as chronoed by me.
The G26 is squat and ugly, but no one is supposed to see it anyway. It doesnt jam or rust and will run dry if necessary. I can see the sights with my 65 yr old eyes. The only thing I might trade it off for is a G19.
JMHO. The G26 is the best compromise for me.
Also, carry a reload. Stuff happens. Take my word for it, a magazine can go bad on you.
The G26 is squat and ugly, but no one is supposed to see it anyway. It doesnt jam or rust and will run dry if necessary. I can see the sights with my 65 yr old eyes. The only thing I might trade it off for is a G19.
JMHO. The G26 is the best compromise for me.
Also, carry a reload. Stuff happens. Take my word for it, a magazine can go bad on you.
hangnoose
Member
A POOR EXAMPLE IMO
4 against 1 are not good odds regardless of what you are carrying. If the first 5 shots all missed, I doubt the outcome would have been different with another gun. Bottom line is you need to be proficient (& lucky) with what you carry. A radio shack? Not exactly a big score like a bank/ jewelry store etc.
4 against 1 are not good odds regardless of what you are carrying. If the first 5 shots all missed, I doubt the outcome would have been different with another gun. Bottom line is you need to be proficient (& lucky) with what you carry. A radio shack? Not exactly a big score like a bank/ jewelry store etc.
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LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
Over the years I have seen what a lot of people do and heard a lot about why they think their ways are the best.
I've worked with cops carrying revolvers with cylinders loaded with different combinations of ammunition (2 .38Spl. JHP's, 2 .357 JHP's, 2 .357 AP's, or some other combination), anticipating a combat situation unfolding in certain ways. A Ouija board may have been used to determine that.
I've known cops who carried 2" Chief Specials while working plainclothes assignments, but went to their range qualifications with 6" K-38's or Colt Pythons.
I've known LOTS of cops who never fired anything but .38Spl target loads for training or qualifications, but went out on the street every day loaded up with .357 SuperVel 110-grain JHP's (WAY DIFFERENT point of impact in relation to point of aim).
As a supervisor, and later as a chief, I've inspected cops guns and gear and commented on the age and experience of the lint and spider webs, not to mention the accumulated crud and gunk that can result from NEVER having received a proper cleaning, and way too much oil slopped into the works.
I've known lots of guys (cops & civilians) who change guns and carry gear the way other people change socks and underwear. I've heard lots of talk about "carry rotation".
I've heard just about every possible argument in favor of, or strongly against, each caliber or bullet type and every conceivable handgun (revolver, semi-auto), etc, etc, etc.
Personally, if I really believed that I would be involved in armed combat on a particular day I wouldn't leave the house without a shotgun, rifle, sidearm, back-up gun, all the ammo I could carry, and two or three armed friends.
I carry the same sidearm every day, in the same holster, on the same belt, at the same position, loaded with the same ammunition. I shoot about once per month with the same handgun, using up the ammunition I've been carrying and replacing it with new ammo of the same type. I clean the pistol thoroughly after firing, lubricate it sparingly, and wipe it down every day when I take it out of the holster for the night.
At home I keep a loaded 12-ga. Remington 870, just like those I've been using for over 40 years. On road trips I usually put a loaded M1 Carbine behind the seat of my truck, or in the trunk of the car, another piece that I have over 40 years of experience with.
I have other firearms, and I enjoy them all. I hunt small game with a .22 revolver, .38Spl revolver, and an original antique percussion rifle of about 1860 vintage. I hunt larger game with .357 revolver, .44 magnum revolver, and centerfire rifles from .25 to .45 caliber (some over 100 years old that require me to cast bullets and load my own ammo because it just hasn't been made during my lifetime).
But for personal defense I use the same equipment every day and train with the same equipment every time. If the worst case scenario develops I don't want to have to stop and think about which gun I'm carrying, where am I carrying it, is there a safety to disengage or not, which ammunition it is loaded with, what is the POI compared to the POA, or any of the other complications that might cause me to lose a fraction of a second in response to the threat.
But that's just me. Recreational shooting is one thing. Self defense is something else. Lots of other people have different opinions about what is best for them.
I've worked with cops carrying revolvers with cylinders loaded with different combinations of ammunition (2 .38Spl. JHP's, 2 .357 JHP's, 2 .357 AP's, or some other combination), anticipating a combat situation unfolding in certain ways. A Ouija board may have been used to determine that.
I've known cops who carried 2" Chief Specials while working plainclothes assignments, but went to their range qualifications with 6" K-38's or Colt Pythons.
I've known LOTS of cops who never fired anything but .38Spl target loads for training or qualifications, but went out on the street every day loaded up with .357 SuperVel 110-grain JHP's (WAY DIFFERENT point of impact in relation to point of aim).
As a supervisor, and later as a chief, I've inspected cops guns and gear and commented on the age and experience of the lint and spider webs, not to mention the accumulated crud and gunk that can result from NEVER having received a proper cleaning, and way too much oil slopped into the works.
I've known lots of guys (cops & civilians) who change guns and carry gear the way other people change socks and underwear. I've heard lots of talk about "carry rotation".
I've heard just about every possible argument in favor of, or strongly against, each caliber or bullet type and every conceivable handgun (revolver, semi-auto), etc, etc, etc.
Personally, if I really believed that I would be involved in armed combat on a particular day I wouldn't leave the house without a shotgun, rifle, sidearm, back-up gun, all the ammo I could carry, and two or three armed friends.
I carry the same sidearm every day, in the same holster, on the same belt, at the same position, loaded with the same ammunition. I shoot about once per month with the same handgun, using up the ammunition I've been carrying and replacing it with new ammo of the same type. I clean the pistol thoroughly after firing, lubricate it sparingly, and wipe it down every day when I take it out of the holster for the night.
At home I keep a loaded 12-ga. Remington 870, just like those I've been using for over 40 years. On road trips I usually put a loaded M1 Carbine behind the seat of my truck, or in the trunk of the car, another piece that I have over 40 years of experience with.
I have other firearms, and I enjoy them all. I hunt small game with a .22 revolver, .38Spl revolver, and an original antique percussion rifle of about 1860 vintage. I hunt larger game with .357 revolver, .44 magnum revolver, and centerfire rifles from .25 to .45 caliber (some over 100 years old that require me to cast bullets and load my own ammo because it just hasn't been made during my lifetime).
But for personal defense I use the same equipment every day and train with the same equipment every time. If the worst case scenario develops I don't want to have to stop and think about which gun I'm carrying, where am I carrying it, is there a safety to disengage or not, which ammunition it is loaded with, what is the POI compared to the POA, or any of the other complications that might cause me to lose a fraction of a second in response to the threat.
But that's just me. Recreational shooting is one thing. Self defense is something else. Lots of other people have different opinions about what is best for them.
elm_creek_smith
US Veteran
Well, here I sit at work wearing (from 12 o'clock going clockwise) two double speed loader cases, my 4 inch S&W Model 686, handcuffs, radio, 26 inch expandable baton, and 5% OC spray on my duty belt,controlling access to a government building on the 13th Anniversary of 9/11. Since there is some hi-viz stuff happening today, I'm wearing regular uniform slacks instead of cargos. What does all this have to do with Sip's epiphany? I have my S&W Model 37 on my left ankle with a speed strip in my shirt pocket, and I hate ankle holsters.
With all the stuff I have to wear (and it's only going to get worse when the Taser X26's come in) why am I lugging a .38 on my ankle? Because sometimes you have to hold the position at all costs. Sometimes you'll be at work. Sometimes you'll be at home. Sometimes you'll be on the road. But, always, you'll be responsible for protecting someone, even if it's only yourself. Only you can figure the cost if you fail.
With all the stuff I have to wear (and it's only going to get worse when the Taser X26's come in) why am I lugging a .38 on my ankle? Because sometimes you have to hold the position at all costs. Sometimes you'll be at work. Sometimes you'll be at home. Sometimes you'll be on the road. But, always, you'll be responsible for protecting someone, even if it's only yourself. Only you can figure the cost if you fail.
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I always tell folks when asked, " carry what YOU are comfortable with ", but if your a civilian or off duty LEO, if you are put in an unfortunate circumstance that you cannot avoid, and I always tell people to try and avoid if possible unless your sworn, your REALLY going to need a weapon you can FIGHT with. I recently mentioned to a former coworker that I always carry a Glock 32 with two spares and a J frame with a 5 shot speed loader. He was astonished. Couldn't believe it. I try and avoid any road issues or other disturbances that do not need my attention and I pray I will never again be in a position to have to use a firearm. This is only my take fellas, don't take it as expertise. Carry a weapon you can shot well and enough ammunition to get you out of that situation.
Well, I'm kind of jealous of you guys who grew up with guns and have years of experience. I shot some Ruger 10/22 in boyscouts, Then qualified with the pistol in the Navy and that was about it. A few years ago, I met a friend who has a lot of guns. We started hanging out more and more, and last winter I bought my first pistol. After a lot of research, I ended up with the M&P .22 for my wife and kids (and I) to plink with. Shortly after, my friend suggested we get our CCDW, and when I got that, I started looking for something to carry, and ended up with a Shield.
I ended with a Shield because it was the best rated pistol that I could find that was easily concealable. I've found, much to my grin, that it is also a nice shooting gun that I can shoot all day long. I think i did alright for my second gun.
As far as the "miniature" slide release and safety, I will say that I have no problem with either. The safety is very easy to click off. Since this is my only gun for both carry and HD, I practice thumbing the safety on the draw. I carry it all the time. OWB when at home because it's more comfortable and IWB when I go out. We've been trying to shoot every other weekend, and do not let more then 2 weekends going without shooting. I don't know. I guess because I never got used to a FS gun with "larger" parts, I don't know what I'm missing?
I ended with a Shield because it was the best rated pistol that I could find that was easily concealable. I've found, much to my grin, that it is also a nice shooting gun that I can shoot all day long. I think i did alright for my second gun.
As far as the "miniature" slide release and safety, I will say that I have no problem with either. The safety is very easy to click off. Since this is my only gun for both carry and HD, I practice thumbing the safety on the draw. I carry it all the time. OWB when at home because it's more comfortable and IWB when I go out. We've been trying to shoot every other weekend, and do not let more then 2 weekends going without shooting. I don't know. I guess because I never got used to a FS gun with "larger" parts, I don't know what I'm missing?
What are u waiting for for crying out loud? Your brother has one so it has to be great. Just get one with out the safety like your brother would have wanted if it was available at the time he bought his.Thanks for all the replies...I still carry an auto now and then, but my P2000 is compact enough to fit in an IWB under a t-shirt so I guess I'll stick with that....for now. And maybe that is why the Shield feels so skinny in my hand...still, it shoot very well for a small auto..and the trigger on the one I shot was better than on my M&P. Hmmm...maybe next year....
Don't like the Shield, don't buy one. Not trying to be a tool, I felt the same way about any handgun that left my pinky in the wind. Got used to it, first with a 9c, then the Shield. Got to where I was better with the flush mag than the extended one, but that's me. Your results may vary.
hkcavalier
US Veteran
This is pretty much why I moved up from a Solo to a Glock 26. 10+1 with a 17rnd mag in a Galco pocket magazine carrier is far better than 6+1 and another 6 ready to go. This is beyond the simple fact that the Glock is far less finicky with ammo and limp-wristing.
If I had a J frame it probably would serve as a BUG on my weak side or in a coat pocket.
We have a Shield in the family but my better half carries that one around...
If I had a J frame it probably would serve as a BUG on my weak side or in a coat pocket.
We have a Shield in the family but my better half carries that one around...
baccusboy
Member
I love my Ruger SR9c. Conceals well. 10 round magazine, or 17 rounds. Gun is still big enough to shoot well, yet easily concealed. And here's the thing... it was designed to feel a lot like a 1911, and it does. Trigger feels similar. Grip angle is the same. Safety is where it should be, if you are a 1911 guy.
I also carry a S&W 1911SC. Love that one, too. Depends on how I feel that day.
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AND.............. so many of the SMALL Auto's are just not even close to the larger iones when it comes to reliability. If you are going small, the J makes perfect sense - at least to me.
getoff
Member
my BUG is my 100% failure free, through 800 rounds of all kinds of ammo, is an LCP with Rugers 7 round ext mag in a galco horsehide pocket holster and a spare 7 round mag off-hand front pocket mag holder. it works, period. its loaded with Powerball and its hot. i find myself with my G19, or 17 more and more. with either, its the same backup mag, a G17 with an Arredondo +6 extension for 23 rounds of Federal HST in 135 gr. standard pressure. both of my vehicles have a Glock 33 round stick mag in the center console. excessive? probably. will i ever need all this kit? probably not. would i rather have it than not? yup. i also carry a fixed blade knife, and flashlight. am i paranoid? i like to think i'm prepared...
TexasArmed
Member
Well I just never figured that out. I knew there was some
reason I like revolvers better and now I know a good reason why. I too am left handed, and I always felt like the was something backwards about semi automatics. I never realized
they put the slide on the wrong side and had never thought about it.
I'm with you.
I read a lot of stuff about most SD shootings happening inside of 7 yards. I don't know, maybe they do, but I'm thinking I need some capability past 7 yards in some situations. I have a model 36 that stays by my bed at night. I feel that inside my house the 7 yard thing is going to work just fine. I don't live in a mansion so any shot I take is going to be under 7 yards. To be honest with you I'm not so sure I'm even going to try and use it past 7 yards because I can't keep every shot inside a pie plate past that range. Is it me or the gun? I don't have a clue. All I know is that's about where we stop.
Outside the house it's a different story. It's quit conceivable that someone would take a shot at me at say 25 yards or beyond. Now what? Are you going to wait until the shooters gets inside your effective range to return fire or make a run for it. Do you practice at 25 yards? What is your guns effective range? What is your effective range?
I practice at 25 yards. The reason is that the shooter is more likely to move away rather than close if he knows he is likely to be shot, if he isn't already.
What I carry isn't important. What you carry is and I hope you know what your effective range is.
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tinman931
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I'm sorry.... Well, maybe I'm not
But every time this type of discussion comes up it reminds me of this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhe58xORWG0
Great. Now I have to try and figure out how to conceal an M60
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