TheHobbyist
Member
Well done and a hell of an entrance!
My first triple lock... was Elmer Keith's
- Thread starter beetledude
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OP
beetledude
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No I don't think it is the same belt hole. Based on the wear marks I'm guessing Elmer was a svelte 30" waist. I'm about a 32". He was using one of the inner holes while I'm using the outer ones.
Yes I had the holster set on pretty much the whole day. My wife just rolled her eyes. LOL
Beetle, After showing us these great guns that Elmer wore around his waist i have a rather rookie question to ask.
The triple locks seem to show little holster wear. Would you attribute that to only being used on occasion or did he wear his rig quite often.
Second could you tell me if its a lined holster. Could the holster design influence light wear?
The triple locks seem to show little holster wear. Would you attribute that to only being used on occasion or did he wear his rig quite often.
Second could you tell me if its a lined holster. Could the holster design influence light wear?
OP
beetledude
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I'm pretty sure that Keith used the holster with different guns back in the day. I recall him writing that he used the Berns-Martin speed holster with a 1917. In addition John Taffin shows this same holster with a pair of Keith's SAAs.
The holster itself is not lined, but the way it is designed results in very little contact with the gun. Essentially the barrel free floats inside the hoster, and the gun is held in place just by the cylinder.
My guess is that Keith paired the triple locks with the holster later in life and did not use/carry it much.
Congrats on your recent acquisitions. And thanks for the wonderful post, pics, and story. I look forward to seeing more in the future.
Jerry
Jerry
Welcome aboard. It's going to be real hard to top that entrance post.
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Awesome! Congratulations and thank you for sharing. Amazing stuff there.
Thanks for sharing your story and the photos! Congratulations on acquiring the outfit.
Impressive!
That pair of TLs is truly iconic! Add me to the list of interested buyers if in the future you want to focus on 1911s. I might want to trade you a 1911 NM toward these...well, probably I'd keep the NM and deal with you on the TLs and holster rig. That will be a while, I guess. Meanwhile, I will enjoy the few items I have in my collection with provenance, but way less significant provenance than yours.
That pair of TLs is truly iconic! Add me to the list of interested buyers if in the future you want to focus on 1911s. I might want to trade you a 1911 NM toward these...well, probably I'd keep the NM and deal with you on the TLs and holster rig. That will be a while, I guess. Meanwhile, I will enjoy the few items I have in my collection with provenance, but way less significant provenance than yours.
NeoBuckeye
Member
Nice write up.
So you already have a reg. Mag, k22 and now a few of Elmer's.
Go big or go home.
I do not want to say I am jealous, but inspired to round out my collection.
Thank you for the educational and well written post.
So you already have a reg. Mag, k22 and now a few of Elmer's.
Go big or go home.
I do not want to say I am jealous, but inspired to round out my collection.
Thank you for the educational and well written post.
SuperMan
Member
Welcome and what a great story....
One thing I do ask...aren't the guns supposed to be down in the holsters a tad more...like the cylinders into the recesses where the springs are and the triggerguards lock in a recess to the rear...
The guns come out through the front, not the top...
Again congratulations...Bob
One thing I do ask...aren't the guns supposed to be down in the holsters a tad more...like the cylinders into the recesses where the springs are and the triggerguards lock in a recess to the rear...
The guns come out through the front, not the top...
Again congratulations...Bob
OP
beetledude
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Hi Bob.
I believe you are correct! After reading your post I know see how the holster is supposed to work. thanks for the insight!
Cheers!
-b
I believe you are correct! After reading your post I know see how the holster is supposed to work. thanks for the insight!
Cheers!
-b
wheelgunguy
Member
You're just starting S&W collecting. I can't wait to see what happens when you get going.
Congrats on a mind boggling start!
Are there any links to your other write ups that you would like to share? I am sure there are more than a few of us who would like to read them.
Congrats on a mind boggling start!
Are there any links to your other write ups that you would like to share? I am sure there are more than a few of us who would like to read them.
Great post!
However, I need to ask, since the information is out there on the James Julia site...
I am a HUGE triple lock fan, not so much a fan of Elmer Keith (to each his own). However, I did see what these cost, others can do so, too, or maybe the OP would volunteer that information (I could, too, but won't at this time)...
Granted, these were Elmer Keith's and they are Triple Locks, but...wasn't that a LOT of money to pay for these???
However, I need to ask, since the information is out there on the James Julia site...
I am a HUGE triple lock fan, not so much a fan of Elmer Keith (to each his own). However, I did see what these cost, others can do so, too, or maybe the OP would volunteer that information (I could, too, but won't at this time)...
Granted, these were Elmer Keith's and they are Triple Locks, but...wasn't that a LOT of money to pay for these???
highpower3006
Member
I have one of those knifes too! They came with a subscription to Guns ans Ammo sometime back in the mid 60's. I remember the picture of Elmer holding the knife in the subscription add.
To those of you that don't know of the Beetle, he is a legend on the Calguns.net forums for his awesome collection. If you go there to the California Handguns sub forum, there is a thread that has all his threads on the history of his various guns.
When I see his stuff, I feel like throwing my paltry collection away.
It was a lot to pay, but it was worth it to him, and that kind of stuff rarely comes around. To each his own. They ARE beautiful revolvers.
If I had had the money to spend, I would have been bidding as well. A lot of my handgunning over the years revolves around the writing of Elmer Keith, Skeeter Skelton, and Bill Jordan. To own artifacts of these men would bring joy to my heart.
I have had friends that sank their money into stereo equipment, cars, clothes, skeet and trap shooting, fishing tackle and boats. None of these things interest me much.
As long as he and his family have a roof over their heads and food to eat, why does it matter what he buys?
Other members of this forum have huge collections of expensive S&Ws and all I can say is, Good for them!
I was not being critical of what money was spent on. It was just the cost, as in, is it really worth that much. I know I am comparing apples to oranges, but if I can afford to buy a home for $250,000 without a problem, but choose to buy a home in a neighbourhood with $200,000 homes, would it be wise to spend $250,000, just because I can afford it? I guess what I am saying is that there have been several nice firearms I have passed up, not because I cannot afford them, just because I think the price is too high for what it is. Just a matter of opinion...
Modified
Member
I think that the great thing about this question is that there's two parts to answering it.
First is the question; "Am I happy with what I got for what I paid?" If the answer is yes, the price doesn't matter (as long as it doesn't mean you have to go bankrupt to keep the gun).
The second part is years later when the gun is sold again. Is it sold for more or less then was originally paid? Did it keep up with inflation?
The first part is answered quite handily already and isn't really up for debate. I think the second can be debated endlessly until the gun is sold again, but it doesn't really matter because answer to the first question is clearly yes.
I tend to think that the future will prove that Beetle made a wise investment here at that gavel price. If I had enough money I certainly would have been happy with the guns at that price. That pair is at the very top of the stack when it comes to collectable S&Ws, right up there with the best of the Registered Magnums owned by famous people and the fantastic Club Guns starting with that wonderful little 0 in the S/N.
Also, and I don't think this has been discussed that much, those Kearsarge stocks are a wonderful and beautiful piece of history in their own right. I know I am a bit of a loon when it comes to them, but I do think they cross the collecting lines of guns, target shooting, fine woodworking, and as good depression era folk art ever gets. Those grips to me are peak Americana in every way.
I have posted answers to questions like these in several threads and will reply here as well.
1. To someone making $10/hour at the local Dunkin Donuts, prices paid for a registered magnum or the OP's guns seem like lottery numbers. To the guy that just sold his dot.com company for 6.2 billion to that Japanese conglomerate, it's the pocket change in his left front pocket. It's all relative.
2. Will the guns go up in value when they are sold again in 10 years or 20 years or 50 years. I'm pretty sure the OP doesn't care. He bought them because they hold significance to him now and he derives pleasure from holding onto a part of history for the blink of an eye that we spend on this mortal coil. It's the same joy that someone else gets buying that 63 split window corvette, or that fishing boat or 75' yacht. (Again price is all relative to how much denaro one has)
I would love to own a revolving rifle but the $40,000+ price tag (and I'm only guessing on that) is a little out of my wheelhouse. However, if I ever do hit Powerball, watch out.
Bottom line, all purchases are made to bring joy to the owner and are usually the reward for hard work or dumb luck. Be it a few beers on Friday night or the OP's guns or that 75' yatch, if it makes you happy, go for it.
1. To someone making $10/hour at the local Dunkin Donuts, prices paid for a registered magnum or the OP's guns seem like lottery numbers. To the guy that just sold his dot.com company for 6.2 billion to that Japanese conglomerate, it's the pocket change in his left front pocket. It's all relative.
2. Will the guns go up in value when they are sold again in 10 years or 20 years or 50 years. I'm pretty sure the OP doesn't care. He bought them because they hold significance to him now and he derives pleasure from holding onto a part of history for the blink of an eye that we spend on this mortal coil. It's the same joy that someone else gets buying that 63 split window corvette, or that fishing boat or 75' yacht. (Again price is all relative to how much denaro one has)
I would love to own a revolving rifle but the $40,000+ price tag (and I'm only guessing on that) is a little out of my wheelhouse. However, if I ever do hit Powerball, watch out.
Bottom line, all purchases are made to bring joy to the owner and are usually the reward for hard work or dumb luck. Be it a few beers on Friday night or the OP's guns or that 75' yatch, if it makes you happy, go for it.
DWalt
Member
For me, the most interesting part of the posting was the picture of Elmer Keith with the two dogs. It appears he is holding a Remington Model 12 .22 rifle in it. About ten years ago, I bought a Model 12 in near-perfect condition (except for a broken hard rubber buttplate) at an estate sale for, as I remember, about $200. In my opinion that's the finest .22 pump gun ever made, and I have put thousands of rounds through it. It's the last .22 I will sell. I guess Elmer knew a few things about .22 rifles also.
I have posted answers to questions like these in several threads and will reply here as well.
1. To someone making $10/hour at the local Dunkin Donuts, prices paid for a registered magnum or the OP's guns seem like lottery numbers. To the guy that just sold his dot.com company for 6.2 billion to that Japanese conglomerate, it's the pocket change in his left front pocket. It's all relative.
2. Will the guns go up in value when they are sold again in 10 years or 20 years or 50 years. I'm pretty sure the OP doesn't care. He bought them because they hold significance to him now and he derives pleasure from holding onto a part of history for the blink of an eye that we spend on this mortal coil. It's the same joy that someone else gets buying that 63 split window corvette, or that fishing boat or 75' yacht. (Again price is all relative to how much denaro one has)
I would love to own a revolving rifle but the $40,000+ price tag (and I'm only guessing on that) is a little out of my wheelhouse. However, if I ever do hit Powerball, watch out.
Bottom line, all purchases are made to bring joy to the owner and are usually the reward for hard work or dumb luck. Be it a few beers on Friday night or the OP's guns or that 75' yatch, if it makes you happy, go for it.
Yes. of course! $39,100 for some folks is a fraction of a day's pay. For others, it is several year's pay. Do I think it is a good investment over the long haul? Probably. Unless, of course, there is little interest in Elmer Keith, or triple locks, in future years, as younger generations flock to plastic firearms...
Modified
Member
Plastic firearms get boring pretty quick. The younger generation will be very interested in this old stuff as long as they are actually introduced to it.
I think the accessibility of fine old S&Ws (being so common) and the wonderful openness and helpfulness of the SWCA folks and general membership of this forum will do the job of that introduction.
We just need to make sure we never become as secretive and insular as the Winchester collectors. Great guys, but between the inaccessibility of decent old Winchester for anything approaching a price a young person can pay and the generally hidden nature of all the good old guns the "younger generation" won't even know about the great guns that exist, much less have the opportunity to own any.
Mission Accomplished!!!! Thanks for taking the time to share your good fortune, experience and great firearms with the rest of us! I might have to head back to the 1911 Forum to read some of your other posts.
Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall seeing your write up on your RM or K-22 pre-war Masterpiece (two of my most favorite firearms of all times)?
Keep doing your "thing" and thanks again for sharing,
OP
beetledude
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Hi folks. I'm out and about today so only have access through my phone right now. Will type up a more detailed response later.
In the meantime here are a couple of links to some of the previous articles I've written. I hope it is ok to post links to other forums. If this is not permitted please let me know and I will edit this post to remove the links.
I haven't written anything specifically on the registered magnum but I do mention it in this story about how I got my colt super 38.
A classic saved from destruction - Calguns.net
One of my longer articles is a sticky on the history of national match 1911s
A Photo Essay of the National Match .45 1911s - 1911Forum
Finally an index of my prior stuff:
a collection of beetle's guns and history threads - Calguns.net
Will respond to more serious discussion about price and value later.
In the meantime here are a couple of links to some of the previous articles I've written. I hope it is ok to post links to other forums. If this is not permitted please let me know and I will edit this post to remove the links.
I haven't written anything specifically on the registered magnum but I do mention it in this story about how I got my colt super 38.
A classic saved from destruction - Calguns.net
One of my longer articles is a sticky on the history of national match 1911s
A Photo Essay of the National Match .45 1911s - 1911Forum
Finally an index of my prior stuff:
a collection of beetle's guns and history threads - Calguns.net
Will respond to more serious discussion about price and value later.
i dont really see what all the hand wringing and gnashing of teeth is all about with regards to what it costs or what was spent. The fact is that these items were FOR SALE TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER. Nothing special about who got them other than the fact that they had the biggest wad that was blown on that particular day on that particular item. Now had they been gifted to someone by EK or the family, well than that is special. Otherwise is simply a matter of money and there will always be someone with more. While I have certainly won an auction in my time, I have grown to value things given to me or offered outside of a bidders war more. I guess we should all be thankful that these guns once belonging to EK are staying in the USA. Think about how it would feel if some Saudi Prince or business man from Dubai or China with more money than all the bidders involved put together bought them all up for his private collection oversees, never to see the light of day again on this side of the world. Pretty lousy feeling when you think about it.
ETA: Congrats to the new owners, my comments are more directed to those who questions the ability or desire to purchase at what they may consider a premium price point. Worth, value and cost are all personally subjective.
ETA: Congrats to the new owners, my comments are more directed to those who questions the ability or desire to purchase at what they may consider a premium price point. Worth, value and cost are all personally subjective.
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Great read Beetledude and I'm old enough to remember regularly reading Elmer, Skeeter and Jordon, etc. I still subscribe to a couple of gun rags and this would have been one of the better stories in current magazines. Thanks for taking the time to write such an educational and interesting couple of articles. Elmer was a character, but was a very interesting writer and I learned a lot from his articles. Glad the guns went to someone who appreciates them. McGivern was the man for fast shooting in the old days (prior to Jerry M.) Glad you appreciate Ed, as well.
Thanks for sharing and congrats on your purchases....
model70hunter
Member
Lucky buddy.
I've heard this of Elmer before. His door was always open.
For those of us unable to bid on his items we hold him in high esteem he was honest and pretty much only wrote about what he had done and tested. His legacy is our memories.
No running a 3 different powder load for accuracy and a I'll use load A this deer season that seems to be common in the gun books today.
If Elmer told you his load A for whatever caliber he was writing about would go end to end on an elk, you knew it would.
