My new .44-spcl carry round

[Buckeye63]

That surprises me, it's very hot. The Underwood 200gr Gold Dots chrono'd at over 1000fps from a 2" Taurus 44 SPL snubbie.

I don't think any lightweight 44 SPL pistol will handle many of them.

I specifically asked about the 200 grain Lead Wadcutter load ..
Thats the only one I asked about ...

I didn't ask about any other 44 Spl load ..

 

[SuperMan]

About 6 or 7 years ago a friend of mine tested all the available 44 Special ammo as he was going to be carrying one of the Smith & Wesson Model 21 Thunder Ranch Specials.

None of the rounds including the Gold Dot expanded reliably.

Bob

 

[Old Arkansawyer]

I will stick with Hornady 240 gr JHP/SWC until something is proven
better. Then I will try them in my mdl 21.
And I second the suggestion of Smith&Wesson coming with a fixed
sight 3 in barrel in 44 special.

 

[Borderboss]

I'm staying with the Hornady Critical Defense in my M69 2.75".

 

[kraynky]

Aluminum will corrode pretty easily, actually, depending on the alloy.

Being in the construction industry, and not a scientist, geologist nor chemist, I do know that copper & aluminum are not supposed to be in contact with one another. Especially in a high humidity/ wet environment.

I don't have a galvanic corrosion chart in front of me, but a more noble metal does not jive so well with a less noble metal. Copper & aluminum are on opposite ends of the chart. So a copper jacketed bullet in an aluminium case, will eventually corrode the less noble (aluminum) material.

I have an aluminum cased JHP 45 colt cartridge here somewhere where that happened. The aluminum case is all corroded & completely eaten away in places. Here it is, also shared in another similar thread.

 

[zzclancy]

Buffalo Bore

About 6 or 7 years ago a friend of mine tested all the available 44 Special ammo as he was going to be carrying one of the Smith & Wesson Model 21 Thunder Ranch Specials.

None of the rounds including the Gold Dot expanded reliably.

Bob

I carry with Buffalo Bore Wadcutters for that reason. 44 Special and 38 Special from Buffalo Bore. Jim Cirillo with the NYPD Stake Out Squad had excellent results with them.

 

[shouldazagged]

Or a set of these. They work well, and conceal much better than the Presentation grips.

My choice for twenty years, though not on a .44 Special. I love the thing.

 

[typetwelve]

The Pachmayr Compacs really help on the recoil, they are wider than the stock rubber grips on the Bulldog.

Buffalo Bore makes a nice 200 gr hard cast sharp-shoulder wadcutter round that is safe for use in the Bulldog.

I'm no expert, but those BB rounds really do seem like the best round for a Bulldog. That I know of, the Bulldog just doesn't get that large projectile moving fast enough to expand properly. BB's approach of using a large, hard slug to do as much soft tissue damage as possible at the speeds a short barrel will provide.

Sadly...I waited too long and it seems that Midway no longer carries that round at all, not even backordered. It lists it as "discontinued"...many other places show it as out of stock.

Buffalo Bore shows it as "in stock"...at a whopping $40/20 (YIKES).

 

[dr. mordo]

I'm no expert, but those BB rounds really do seem like the best round for a Bulldog. That I know of, the Bulldog just doesn't get that large projectile moving fast enough to expand properly. BB's approach of using a large, hard slug to do as much soft tissue damage as possible at the speeds a short barrel will provide.

Sadly...I waited too long and it seems that Midway no longer carries that round at all, not even backordered. It lists it as "discontinued"...many other places show it as out of stock.

Buffalo Bore shows it as "in stock"...at a whopping $40/20 (YIKES).

I've quit buying Buffalo Bore due to their use of incredibly hard primers; Underwood charges less and I've had no ignition problems at all.


44 Special 200 Grain Hard Cast Wadcutter – Underwood Ammo

 

[typetwelve]

I've quit buying Buffalo Bore due to their use of incredibly hard primers; Underwood charges less and I've had no ignition problems at all.


44 Special 200 Grain Hard Cast Wadcutter – Underwood Ammo

Than you so much for the suggestion! I wonder if this stuff is good to go from a Bulldog.

 

[nedlate]

I have no idea about expansion but the Blazer 200g. Gold Dot and the Speer 200g. Gold Dot are a pleasure to shoot and are both accurate for me!
Ed

 

[dr. mordo]

Than you so much for the suggestion! I wonder if this stuff is good to go from a Bulldog.

Underwood claims the same speed as Buffalo Bore, and above Buckeye63 says:

The 200gr Gold dot is a great choice... I still use Federal 200gr LSWCHP ...
Im thinking about Underwoods 200gr LWC ... I contacted them about use in the Charter ... They said it was good to go ..

I'll add that the 165gr Critical Defense is good ammo for a Charter, but truly underpowered. I chrono'd some and it averaged 950fps, which puts it at 38 SPL energy levels.

 

[The_Truth]

I really wish S&W would come out with a fixed sight, lightweight, round butt N or L frame revolver, a bobbed hammer and no lock in 44 Special. While they are at it a blued version and one in stainless with QUALITY from the 70's.

They wouldn't be able to keep them in stock and could charge a premium price.

But the I still believe in Santa Claus, Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy.

It's not blued, but they already made a 296Ti

 

[shocker]

You all have convinced me. 38 +P or a mild 357 is the way to go.

Seriously, my handloading experience tells me that pushing a 200 gr bullet fast enough to reliably open it, say 850 fps, would produce some pretty stout recoil in a lightweight gun like the Bulldog (21 oz). Besides the issue of getting a bullet that fast from a short barrel and stay within SAAMI pressure limits.

 

[dr. mordo]

You all have convinced me. 38 +P or a mild 357 is the way to go.

Seriously, my handloading experience tells me that pushing a 200 gr bullet fast enough to reliably open it, say 850 fps, would produce some pretty stout recoil in a lightweight gun like the Bulldog (21 oz). Besides the issue of getting a bullet that fast from a short barrel and stay within SAAMI pressure limits.

I can say that shooting a 200gr Underwood Gold Dot @ 1000fps out of my Taurus 445 (2" aluminum 44 SPL) was pretty dang stout, but felt just a bit hotter than shooting .38 +p from an Airweight. It's stout, but not horrible.

And you could always carry the Underwood wadcutters; I'm sure they lessen recoil quite a bit.

That said, if you plan to carry a 21oz 357, it's hard to argue against it. The 2" Chiappa Rhino in my pocket right now says you're a smart man, and with full tilt 357 loaded it recoils much less than .38 +P in an Airweight or 44 SPL in my Taurus.

 

[typetwelve]

I can say that shooting a 200gr Underwood Gold Dot @ 1000fps out of my Taurus 445 (2" aluminum 44 SPL) was pretty dang stout, but felt just a bit hotter than shooting .38 +p from an Airweight. It's stout, but not horrible.

And if you could always carry the Underwood wadcutters; I'm sure they lessen recoil quite a bit.

That said, if you plan to carry a 21oz 357, it's hard to argue against it. The 2" Chiappa Rhino in my pocket right now says you're a smart man, and with full tilt 357 loaded it recoils much less than .38 +P in an Airweight or 44 SPL in my Taurus.

I understand that recoil is totally subjective...so I'll say what I've found. At some point or another, I owned a S&W 642 and a polymer Bodyguard . S&W lists them both as weighing in a 14.4oz. They were slight hand stingers with heavier +P rounds, but nothing too massive. My Charter Bulldog weighs in at 19oz and is is FAR more of a hand stinger than the other two ever were. I've been feeding it Magtech 240gr FMJ rounds and I can assure you, despite Magtech calling it "low recoil" on the box, it is definitely the opposite. 25 or so rounds is just about all I can take from the Bulldog before I start flinching and shanking shots. those 25 rounds are also good enough to make my palm meat sore the next day.

 

[Univibe]

I have an old Hand Ejector .44 spl from the 1950s. On the rare occasions I shoot it, I load 240 grain LSWC going about 750 fps (published).

I also have a new Model 629 6.5". I load hardcast 240 grain SWC in magnum cases to about 1050 fps (published).

Both are pleasant target loads in the respective guns. Any more boogie, or the same loads in lighter and smaller pocket guns, might not be.

 

[Bronco89]

Underwood claims the same speed as Buffalo Bore, and above Buckeye63 says:





I'll add that the 165gr Critical Defense is good ammo for a Charter, but truly underpowered. I chrono'd some and it averaged 950fps, which puts it at 38 SPL energy levels.

I agree, and I buy a lot of Hornady. My wife carries critical defense in her Airweight, and I carry it as well if I am in the city, which isn't very often. (38 Charter Arms 6 shot). I've only had the S&W69 about 6 months, and haven't found my favorite load yet. It seems to shoot like a dream with everything I have fed it.

 

[typetwelve]

Here's the reply that I got back from Underwood:

Yes, the 200gr Wadcutter, 245gr FMJ, and 125gr Xtreme Defender are all recommended loads for Bulldogs. Our other .44Spl loads can be shot in limited quantities, just don't make a steady diet of full-power loads.

Thanks again for the recommendation...I'm definitely going to get some of those 200gr rounds for my Bulldog.

 

[fortyshooter]

Here is my review of the Bulldog shooting my 200 gr. GD loads.
The GD bullet seems to work well at less than 900 FPS.
YouTube

It's a great little carry revolver for the money.

 

[Borderboss]

I'll add that the 165gr Critical Defense is good ammo for a Charter, but truly underpowered. I chrono'd some and it averaged 950fps, which puts it at 38 SPL energy levels.

I wouldn't considered a 165 gr bullet at 950fps underpowered at all. That's 330 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle. That's much more than a typical .38spl round, which is at best 850 fps with a 158gr bullet, yielding a little more than 250 fl-lbs of energy. And we're talking about a .429 bullet at the start versus a .358 bullet.

So no, there's no comparison between the two.

 

[Valmet]

Some great loads to consider in this thread. On the occasion that it gets carried I've used Winchester Super-X 200-gr ammo in my two Bulldogs. May have to revisit that now

 

[dr. mordo]

I wouldn't considered a 165 gr bullet at 950fps underpowered at all. That's 330 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle. That's much more than a typical .38spl round, which is at best 850 fps with a 158gr bullet, yielding a little more than 250 fl-lbs of energy. And we're talking about a .429 bullet at the start versus a .358 bullet.

So no, there's no comparison between the two.

You might be right within the context of modern gutless 38 SPL ammo, but there was a time when 38 SPL was much hotter, and some companies still load to maximize the caliber.

The FBI load, which many would argue is the definitive 38 SPL self defense load, is generally described as a 158gr LSWCHP at 1000fps for 351 ft-lbs of energy. The new improved Buffalo Bore version hits 1162fps from a 4" barrel for 474 ft-lbs!

So the 38 SPL can far exceed the energy of the 44 SPL Critical Defense though it's true the bullet is 7/100s of an inch smaller. I carry a 44 SPL loaded with the Critical Defense everyday, so I think it's "enough", but that doesn't change the fact that it performs far below the potential of the 44 SPL cartridge.

 

[Jaymo]

I'm glad to see so many .44 Spl and CA Bulldog fans here.
I was beginning to think I was the only one.
I've carried a CA Bulldog in one variation or other since 1991.
Yep. My first carry piece when I turned 21 was the CA Bulldog.
I knew I wanted one long before then.
I've carried the Federal 240 SWCHP, CCI and Speer 200 GD, WW Silvertip, Glaser Blue, and a Hornady HP (forget the weight).
I'm currently carrying the GA Arms loading with the 200 GD.
I'm probably going to switch to the BB or Underwood WC.

 

[Borderboss]

You might be right within the context of modern gutless 38 SPL ammo, but there was a time when 38 SPL was much hotter, and some companies still load to maximize the caliber.

The FBI load, which many would argue is the definitive 38 SPL self defense load, is generally described as a 158gr LSWCHP at 1000fps for 351 ft-lbs of energy. The new improved Buffalo Bore version hits 1162fps from a 4" barrel for 474 ft-lbs!

So the 38 SPL can far exceed the energy of the 44 SPL Critical Defense though it's true the bullet is 7/100s of an inch smaller. I carry a 44 SPL loaded with the Critical Defense everyday, so I think it's "enough", but that doesn't change the fact that it performs far below the potential of the 44 SPL cartridge.

As I recall, the old FBI load was rated at Double-Plus P ("+P+"), so you're doing an apples-and-oranges comparison. While Buffalo Bore doesn't say that they've pressure tested their round, I'm having a hard time believing that they could get that velocity out of a 158 gr. bullet at only +P pressures.

If there were enough market interest, I'm sure someone would market a +P 44SPL load, and then the comparisons would be more in alignment.

I think the load you would like would be the now-discontinued Speer 44 Mag Short Barrel, which has the Gold Dot bullet downloaded to a little over 1,000 FPS. I have to assume that they discontinued it due to lack of interest. That's unfortunate, because it's nice ammo. I bought a bunch recently when Bud's still had it in stock.

It would be great if someone would load a +P 44 Spl. that was designed to perform in a short barrel. That Speer Short Barrel 44 Mag could have probably been loaded in a Special case.

 

[typetwelve]

As I recall, the old FBI load was rated at Double-Plus P ("+P+"), so you're doing an apples-and-oranges comparison. While Buffalo Bore doesn't say that they've pressure tested their round, I'm having a hard time believing that they could get that velocity out of a 158 gr. bullet at only +P pressures.

If there were enough market interest, I'm sure someone would market a +P 44SPL load, and then the comparisons would be more in alignment.

I think the load you would like would be the now-discontinued Speer 44 Mag Short Barrel, which has the Gold Dot bullet downloaded to a little over 1,000 FPS. I have to assume that they discontinued it due to lack of interest. That's unfortunate, because it's nice ammo. I bought a bunch recently when Bud's still had it in stock.

It would be great if someone would load a +P 44 Spl. that was designed to perform in a short barrel. That Speer Short Barrel 44 Mag could have probably been loaded in a Special case.

Possibly? I'd be hesitant to run +P 44 spcl in a Bulldog, but I would in something like a new GP100 in 44 spcl...then again, at nearly 40oz, I could just get a smaller 44 magnum revolver and run full power loads in it.

 

[geartow]

i like the sig vcrown in my 44 special. I also carry it in my 44mag when not hunting.