My new education M-1 carbines

[wundudnee]

Last year at this time I knew nearly nothing about carbines. Now I still know very little. I have learned over the years that I can learn by books and buying lessons. I have bought two lessons now and I can see it will be a daunting task to become somewhat of a carbine guru.

The top one I found at a garage sale a couple weeks ago. It is a National Postal Meter with an IBM barrel and Winchester stock. It is a 1943 model and has been through at least one arsenal rebuild. Nice and straight.

The bottom one is a Winchester with an Inland barrel and a M-2 perch belly stock. I got it at the Denver collector show. It has also been arsenal rebuilt. It was one of the last built in 1945.

There were ten different companies producing carbines during WWll and they shared many parts across all of them. Then when they come back to the arsenal they mix in a few more parts. Almost all the parts are marked with the manufacturer's marks and there are numerous proof and arsenal stamps. Any way, I'm having fun trying to make sense out of these puzzles. There are many good research books on them.

Here is a picture of the NPM with my .38 Special Victory I found at the Missouri Valley Collector's Show.

 

[max]

There are some good Youtube videos on disassembly and reassembly.

 

[hittman77]

Congratulations on your M1 Carbines.

I too recently bought one. Yes, there's a ton of information ... good information ... on line and in books about these weapons.

Mine is all Inland, dated 3/44 and in excellent condition. It came with a bunch of accessories; 8 old original magazines, a few hundred rounds of ammo (all gone now BTW), sling, bayonet with sheath, cleaning kit, etc. It shoots like a dream too.

 

[Valmet]

They're sweet little guns. Bought my first Carbine in 1999- a National Postal Meter for $425.

 

[stu1ritter]

I was the division armorer for the 1st Cav. Div in Korea in 1959. We had lots of carbines. I had a shop van (deuce and a quarter/half) that I went around to the various Cav units and repaired their guns, 1911's up to 50 cal. machine guns. I had drawers and drawers of parts, much still in cosmoline, back to WWII and believe me, I never looked at the parts manufacturer when I stuck a new barrel on or restocked a carbine, they were just parts to be used to keep the carbines serviceable. Same with 1911's and all the rest of the guns I worked on, they were just parts.

Stu

 

[stansdds]

Good luck with becoming a U.S. M1 Carbine guru. With so many subcontractors and manufacturers making every single part, manufacturers using parts from multiple subcontractors, then repairs and arsenal rebuilds swapping parts. It's far more mind boggling than U.S. military M1911's and M1911-A1's.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I have 2 Carbines, a 2-43 IBM that I can't find any indication of a rebuild, and a late 44 IBM, the in 53 or 54 was rebuilt and fitted with a T-3 Night Scope, and appears to have seen service a few nights in Vietnam. The value on all models of the Carbines just seems to keep climbing, but the two I have came as sweet deals from idiots that needed cash. (those deals are "few and far between", but they are out there!)

My wife can't handle the weight of a AR-15 so she uses the M-1. So I keep a pair of loaded 15 round mags on the stock and a loaded 15 rounder close at hand. If 45 rounds of 110 grain soft nose HP's (Winchester) can't handle the problem, we were in over our heads anyway!

Several years ago I was at a yard sale, and a guy had a wooden ammo crate with almost 200 M-1 mags (15 round) in it. I gave him his asking price; $100. I sold most of them in the 90's at $6 each, but still have a dozen or so left. (you only carry so many!)

Ivan

 

[DWalt]

Back in the mid-60s, DCM was selling them for around $15. My first carbine was a GI bringback Inland with something like 20 magazines and several thousand rounds of GI ammo, plus dozens of spare parts, $40. I still have it.

About 99% of M1 carbines seen today are post-WWII arsenal rebuilds, generally re-stocked, bayonet studs added, and with the new design adjustable rear sight and safety switch. An original condition WWII carbine is a rarity, as the rebuilt carbines normally are assemblies of components from different sources. Most of the rebuilding of the WWII carbines was done here in San Antonio, at the old San Antonio Arsenal, just south of downtown San Antonio, in an area called the King William District. The arsenal buildings are still there, now used as the HQ of a large Texas supermarket chain.

 

[lawandorder]

Military weapons have been subject to parts mixing since the day Eli Whitney had a great idea.

 

[DWalt]

Military weapons have been subject to parts mixing since the day Eli Whitney had a great idea.

Actually, long before that. Weapons having mass-produced interchangeable parts were used in the Punic wars and also in China back around the time of Christ, most notably crossbow sear mechanisms. Eli Whitney was apparently the first to apply the parts interchangeability idea to firearms, and he did a lot of fudging to promote his idea. Most of his earlier interchangeable parts weren't that interchangeable, and required hand fitting. But that was still better than no interchangeability of parts at all.

 

[lawandorder]

True but let's give him credit for it with U.S. Military weapons.��

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

True but let's give him credit for it with U.S. Military weapons.��

Not really! Congress called him to task on the Hall Breech Loader, so he went before Congress to prove his point. He had 10 rifles that were completely interchangeable! Out of 20 or 30 he had all his men piece and fit 10 that interchanged before Congress, but some of those needed more work before they would actually fire!

Years later (1846), Sam Colt had Ely's sons make the 1100 Walkers on contract. Those actually had interchangeable parts! And a few more were actually put together from spare/over run parts 15 years later for the Civil War. AKA: Whitneyville Walkers

Ivan

 

[wundudnee]

Thanks everybody. I am always impressed with the extent of knowledge of nearly any subject by the members of this forum. One of my favorite quotes is by Will Rogers, he stated "Everyone's ignorant, only on different subjects."

I consider myself in the ignorant, but willing to learn category.

 

[sureshotbob]

I use to collect carbine's had a correct Inland, Winchester and a Standard Products. Also a Rock-Ola, National Postal Meter and another Inland mix master. The only thing I have left is a bunch of part's,magazines and tool's.

 

[KEN L]

The top one I found at a garage sale a couple weeks ago. It is a National Postal Meter with an IBM barrel and Winchester stock. It is a 1943 model and has been through at least one arsenal rebuild. Nice and straight.

The bottom one is a Winchester with an Inland barrel and a M-2 perch belly stock.

Actually, that would be a potbelly stock. Nice looking pair and a great begining to a world of collecting madness, much akin to Smith & Wessons.

 

[garryj]

If you want to know most everything on the M1 Carbine history, get Larry Ruth's book War Baby! The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbine. There are three volumes(I think)and they are a little pricey, but are full of info on the M1 Carbine. I had volume 1, but like a fool I sold it. I used to have four carbines(Underwood, IBM and 2 Inlands), but I'm down to one Inland mixmaster at present, and it is a shooter. Fun to shoot and a bear to clean. My hands are so greasy after I clean mine, they look like I've been working on my truck.

Garry

 

[stansdds]

I have only one, a re-import from South Korea. It's a mix of parts, I think on mine the barrel (which has worn rifling at the muzzle and slight pitting in the bore) and the receiver might be the only original pieces. It's a shooter grade piece and that's why I bought it.

 

[waffles]

Mine, a South Korean return Underwood, next to my CMP Garand. Paid $500 for it as a cheap shooter and it's a blast.

Currently wearing an aimpoint (though now a T1 rather than my old 68) on a non-destructive ultimak rail, and it does wonders for the shootability. I've owned a handful, and been around many others, and I've yet to see one I'd call reliable enough to trust as a defensive arm today, which is a shame as I'd absolutely love to sell off my ARs and dump the funds into 30 carbine ammo during the next panic.

 

[Aggie1906]

I fully agree on War Baby and War Baby II being great, possibly the greatest, books on the M-1 Carbine. I have both. War Baby III is for the truly addicted, full of info that Ruth compiled.
My birth year (maybe month too) Saginaw (S.G.) carbine was worth waiting and paying for, courtesy of Saginaw's acknowledged expert.

 

[Charlie Foxtrott]

I have a couple of really clean ones.

A 43 IBM and a 44 Inland. Neither one of them is going away anytime soon. Even have some new in the paper magazines for them.