My Shield .40 issues
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Ajaxtheknight
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Feelinlucky, Smith and Wesson did not indicate why they replaced the barrel.
Is there anyone out there who has shot the Hornady Critical Defense out of their Shield .40? If so what were the results?
Is there anyone out there who has shot the Hornady Critical Defense out of their Shield .40? If so what were the results?
Rastoff
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This seems to be the pattern with the .40 Shields. The lion's share are fine, some are marginal and very few have actually had catastrophic failure. I believe this to be a combination of over pressure rounds and an unsupported chamber.
I would not use that round in that gun again. All it takes is a load with a weak case and you'll have a bad day.
I would not use that round in that gun again. All it takes is a load with a weak case and you'll have a bad day.
musicmanwolf
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I just shot some 165gr Hornady Critical Defense rounds through my 40 Shield about 30 mins ago. I wanted to try them to see if I had the same issues. No issues at all. Really accurate ammo.
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Ajaxtheknight
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Thanks for the reply musicman. Good to know that I am not just being paranoid, and that what I am experiencing is not normal.
Does anyone know if a weaker than normal guide rod spring would contribute to the problem?
Alex,
Did S&W state that they replaced the barrel or is it just something you noticed? I'm wondering if they made any other changes.
Alex,
Did S&W state that they replaced the barrel or is it just something you noticed? I'm wondering if they made any other changes.
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Ajaxtheknight
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The paperwork from Smith was itemized and the only thing they noted was the barrel replacement.
I have considered the recoil spring/guide rod assembly as the issue. The reason being that the bulges in the cases are larger than the unsupported area of the chamber, leading me to believe that some of the bulging occurred after the round began to extract. This is a low round count firearm, the shield .40 isn't the most fun at the range so I only shoot it enough to stay proficient.
This morning I disassembled the gun for cleaning and I inspected the new barrel closer. I am extremely disappointed in what I found. The lip on the feed ramp is damaged. I consider this to be a critical area for reliable feeding. In the pictures you can see there are several chips on the lip. They are coated in black so they must have occurred before the barrel was coated/treated. the outside of the barrel also has a couple of imperfections. They almost look like scratches but are pretty deep. I think they are from manufacturing. These don't bug me as much as the feed ramp issue.
I have contacted Hornady about the bulging cases and am awaiting a response.
As for the gun, I will be contacting Smith and Wesson to express my disappointment.
I have considered the recoil spring/guide rod assembly as the issue. The reason being that the bulges in the cases are larger than the unsupported area of the chamber, leading me to believe that some of the bulging occurred after the round began to extract. This is a low round count firearm, the shield .40 isn't the most fun at the range so I only shoot it enough to stay proficient.
This morning I disassembled the gun for cleaning and I inspected the new barrel closer. I am extremely disappointed in what I found. The lip on the feed ramp is damaged. I consider this to be a critical area for reliable feeding. In the pictures you can see there are several chips on the lip. They are coated in black so they must have occurred before the barrel was coated/treated. the outside of the barrel also has a couple of imperfections. They almost look like scratches but are pretty deep. I think they are from manufacturing. These don't bug me as much as the feed ramp issue.
I have contacted Hornady about the bulging cases and am awaiting a response.
As for the gun, I will be contacting Smith and Wesson to express my disappointment.
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Rastoff
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No, I don't see how the recoil spring could contribute to bulging cases. This issue is isolated to the ammo and chamber.
Ajaxtheknight,
I'd be disappointed too. That barrel looks terrible. The line on the barrel itself is not really an issue, but the feed ramp is completely unacceptable. I'm stunned that they sent you a replacement barrel like that.
feelinlucky
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I've shot maybe thirty rounds of the Critical Defense ammo through my 40 Shield. I always pick up all my empty brass and inspect it. Never seen any bulges at all from this ammo.
ballista216
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I finally got my 40 shield to the range yesterday for the first time. I shot 200 wwb, 50 pmc, and 40 of the critical defense and luckily I didn't have a single bulge. All the ammo was 165 grain, I've looked through a lot of forums and a lot of different posts and from what I can tell almost all of the bulging cases are 180 grain.
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Ajaxtheknight
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I got a response from Hornady about the bulging cases. They said that bulging with .40 s&w is normal, especially in firearms without a fully supported chamber. Mostly due to the fact that it is a high pressure round. To paraphrase they said that the slides on semi autos operate so fast that there is still pressure in the chamber when the round begins to extract. They also said it is "generally" safe to reload the cases as long as they are not cracked. I wouldn't use them again for anything.
This supports the theory that weak guide rod/recoil Springs may be causing some of the issues with the shields. In concert was a somewhat unsupported chambers it is a recipe for trouble. Add in the reduced mass of the shields slide and you are walking a fine line. This would explain why most of the problems are with heavier 185gr bullets. Remember that whole equal and opposite reaction thing. From an engineering standpoint I believe a Smith is walking a fine line with not much margin for error. This is my "perfect storm" theory high pressure round + unsupported chamber + low slide mass + possible weak recoil Springs = problem. Appears as if as little as a 20gr difference in bullet weight is enough to cause disaster.
I don't agree with everything Hornady said but it sounds like they have had this question before. Also I did not send them photos of the brass, so they don't know to what degree they are bulging.
I will still be contacting Smith about my defective replacement barrel but I thought you guys and gals might find Hornady's response interesting.
This supports the theory that weak guide rod/recoil Springs may be causing some of the issues with the shields. In concert was a somewhat unsupported chambers it is a recipe for trouble. Add in the reduced mass of the shields slide and you are walking a fine line. This would explain why most of the problems are with heavier 185gr bullets. Remember that whole equal and opposite reaction thing. From an engineering standpoint I believe a Smith is walking a fine line with not much margin for error. This is my "perfect storm" theory high pressure round + unsupported chamber + low slide mass + possible weak recoil Springs = problem. Appears as if as little as a 20gr difference in bullet weight is enough to cause disaster.
I don't agree with everything Hornady said but it sounds like they have had this question before. Also I did not send them photos of the brass, so they don't know to what degree they are bulging.
I will still be contacting Smith about my defective replacement barrel but I thought you guys and gals might find Hornady's response interesting.
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NCooper
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Send them you email from hornady too. Maybe they will replace the recoil and guide spring.
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Ajaxtheknight
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Critical Defense is 165gr in .40 s&w.
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Ajaxtheknight
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I got ahold of S&W, this time I called. All of my previous correspondence have been through email. I waited on hold for about 30min, I expected that.
The gentleman I spoke to said all they can do is have me send it in again. A rather inconvenient process for me. The call was short, the CS rep didn't have much to say. He didn't so much as apologize for the problem. I mentioned that the original problem I was having still persisted after the repair and he never even asked what it was. Just told me to send the gun back in following the instructions in the email.
I have to say I am a little disappointed by this whole thing. I own 3 other S&W firearms. It was 4 until a couple weeks ago when I sold my rarely used 15-22. Can't say this debacle makes me want to run out and buy another product of theirs.
The gentleman I spoke to said all they can do is have me send it in again. A rather inconvenient process for me. The call was short, the CS rep didn't have much to say. He didn't so much as apologize for the problem. I mentioned that the original problem I was having still persisted after the repair and he never even asked what it was. Just told me to send the gun back in following the instructions in the email.
I have to say I am a little disappointed by this whole thing. I own 3 other S&W firearms. It was 4 until a couple weeks ago when I sold my rarely used 15-22. Can't say this debacle makes me want to run out and buy another product of theirs.
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Ajaxtheknight
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I received an email from Smith yesterday. My Shield is on its way back. I am supposed to get it Monday. I can't wait to have it back.
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Ajaxtheknight
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I got my gun back today. When I sent it in this time I sent a very pleasant and detailed letter describing my issue with the feed ramp as well as my original concern with the bulging brass which had improved slightly after the first repair. I opened the box today and the paperwork stated that they polished the feed ramp and function tested the firearm. I disassembled the firearm for cleaning as I plan on taking it out to the range tomorrow.
I wish I could say I am happy with what I found. When I got the gun back the first time they had put a new barrel in it. The problem was the front lip of the feed ramp was not exactly in good shape. It looked like someone had run it across some rough cement. Well they addressed that issue by grinding the front lip of the feed ramp down. Which is fine I expected that. However it is very crooked, easily visible with the baked eye. Looks like a trainee worked on it. When they polished the feed ramp they decided it was necessary to open the throat of the chamber as well. The barrel now has a noticeable amount less chamber support than my original barrel. Nothing else was done to the firearm.
This makes me think they did not read the entire letter I sent with the gun. I find it hard to believe that with my original concern they would grind away the chamber of my replacement barrel. Given how badly the original barrel bulged the cases I am afraid to even run any SD ammo through it now.
I will be out at the range tomorrow to test it. If all goes well I will settle for the poorly modified barrel. If not I don't know what I will do. I am sick of dealing with this.
I have attached a picture of what it looks like now.
I wish I could say I am happy with what I found. When I got the gun back the first time they had put a new barrel in it. The problem was the front lip of the feed ramp was not exactly in good shape. It looked like someone had run it across some rough cement. Well they addressed that issue by grinding the front lip of the feed ramp down. Which is fine I expected that. However it is very crooked, easily visible with the baked eye. Looks like a trainee worked on it. When they polished the feed ramp they decided it was necessary to open the throat of the chamber as well. The barrel now has a noticeable amount less chamber support than my original barrel. Nothing else was done to the firearm.
This makes me think they did not read the entire letter I sent with the gun. I find it hard to believe that with my original concern they would grind away the chamber of my replacement barrel. Given how badly the original barrel bulged the cases I am afraid to even run any SD ammo through it now.
I will be out at the range tomorrow to test it. If all goes well I will settle for the poorly modified barrel. If not I don't know what I will do. I am sick of dealing with this.
I have attached a picture of what it looks like now.
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Ajaxtheknight
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I made it to the range today. What a beautiful day to be out shooting. Sunny and warm. The nicest day of the year so far here in NW PA.
As I suspected yesterday the alterations they made to the barrel on its last trip back to Smith have put me back at square one. The reduction in case bulging I noticed after the barrel replacement is all gone. All of the SD ammo I shot through it today bulged severely. It is to the point that I am afraid to run anything but WWB 165gr through this gun, which is the only ammo that doesn't seem to bulge in it. You can see the unsupported area of the chamber in the Fireformed brass though. That makes it pretty much useless for carry. I have zero confidence in this firearm, actually I consider it a risk to even shoot. None of my other .40 caliber handguns have this problem, compact or FS with any ammo I shoot through them.
I haven't decided if I am going to give Smith another chance or if I am going to just take the hit and get rid of it. S&W has not earned my respect with the way they have handled this. I would feel bad selling it in its current state, I feel it is a bit dangerous. I may just put it in the safe for good and chalk it up as lesson learned.
As I suspected yesterday the alterations they made to the barrel on its last trip back to Smith have put me back at square one. The reduction in case bulging I noticed after the barrel replacement is all gone. All of the SD ammo I shot through it today bulged severely. It is to the point that I am afraid to run anything but WWB 165gr through this gun, which is the only ammo that doesn't seem to bulge in it. You can see the unsupported area of the chamber in the Fireformed brass though. That makes it pretty much useless for carry. I have zero confidence in this firearm, actually I consider it a risk to even shoot. None of my other .40 caliber handguns have this problem, compact or FS with any ammo I shoot through them.
I haven't decided if I am going to give Smith another chance or if I am going to just take the hit and get rid of it. S&W has not earned my respect with the way they have handled this. I would feel bad selling it in its current state, I feel it is a bit dangerous. I may just put it in the safe for good and chalk it up as lesson learned.
SpringGunTunes
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I've been following your post here. I'm sorry you're having with your pistol and S&W.
I think you should copy and paste this in a letter and send it certified mail to S&W. Then see if they contact you. But I would keep sending it back until they fix it. You might also want to call (wait 30 to 60 minutes on hold of course) and ask to speak to a supervisor or manager.
Good luck.
Rastoff
US Veteran
I'm sorry your gun isn't working like it should.
When I had this much trouble with a S&W gun some time ago, this is what I did. After sending it back for the second time, and still having the same problem, I put the ball in their court and asked, "What now? It obviously isn't being fixed so, what can we do at this point?" Their response was that they would give me a refund if I wanted it. I said yes, they gave me another shipping label, I sent the gun back, I sent them a copy of my receipt and two weeks later I got a check.
