Name That .38 S&W Victory Raised Rib
- Thread starter Nicksterdemus
- Start date
OP
Nicksterdemus
Member
Been a while, so I thought I'd pull out the old Victory and snoop around
The Ken Maynard consecutive pair, complete w/Guadalupe S. Garcia tooled brown leather double-gun belt rig with twelve cartridge loops and a pair of "Mexican loop" holsters, Serial # 676786/676787- Victory 38 S&W 5 Inch Solid Rib barrel each also has the 'P' stamped on the left side in front of the hammer.
As I peruse the Victory thread I note another S&W 38 that includes the P stamp. Perhaps the P stood for S&W 38 frame, though the frame is the same, yet helped draw attention/keep tabs/quick ID that this was/or intended for the shorter/slightly tapered cylinder/round.
Another possibility is that the P distinguished a certain slot/series intended on fulfilling an order for homeland security/defense plant, etc.
The Ken Maynard pistolas, save the P, were w/o any proofs/cartouches, that I could determine thru pics, suggesting perhaps never shipped out of the states.
They also had plugged lanyard holes, smooth/flat w/o SN. Of course his had KEN-MAYNARD etched in the butt. I can only speculate what might have originally been stamped on the butt other than SN if anything.
The jeweled hammer on mine shows considerable wear in comparison to the trigger. Suggesting perhaps quite a bit of use/handling. Mine is a reblue no doubt, yet maintains a lot of coverage. Save, front/back of grip continuing to the back of the hump on frame above the stocks. The butt however is not worn which again suggests at least a fair amount of handling on the other areas.
The cylinder has some play, hammer back/trigger pulled, and the left side of the forcing cone, not quite half-way, shows evidence from the front of cylinder sliding across whilst being closed w/arm pointing down. Fair amount of usage that should benefit from being shimmed.
Regardless of whatever the P denotes it is interesting/enjoyable to search on sites as this that provide threads as the Victory aiding tremendously in comparing similarities.
As others have provided jeweled hammer/triggers & raised add-on ribs were somewhat common in customizing back in the day. The most interesting feature of the Ken Maynard set to me was the consecutive SN's albeit not on the butt.
I think I'll step in the backyard and fire off a few rounds.
The Ken Maynard consecutive pair, complete w/Guadalupe S. Garcia tooled brown leather double-gun belt rig with twelve cartridge loops and a pair of "Mexican loop" holsters, Serial # 676786/676787- Victory 38 S&W 5 Inch Solid Rib barrel each also has the 'P' stamped on the left side in front of the hammer.
As I peruse the Victory thread I note another S&W 38 that includes the P stamp. Perhaps the P stood for S&W 38 frame, though the frame is the same, yet helped draw attention/keep tabs/quick ID that this was/or intended for the shorter/slightly tapered cylinder/round.
Another possibility is that the P distinguished a certain slot/series intended on fulfilling an order for homeland security/defense plant, etc.
The Ken Maynard pistolas, save the P, were w/o any proofs/cartouches, that I could determine thru pics, suggesting perhaps never shipped out of the states.
They also had plugged lanyard holes, smooth/flat w/o SN. Of course his had KEN-MAYNARD etched in the butt. I can only speculate what might have originally been stamped on the butt other than SN if anything.
The jeweled hammer on mine shows considerable wear in comparison to the trigger. Suggesting perhaps quite a bit of use/handling. Mine is a reblue no doubt, yet maintains a lot of coverage. Save, front/back of grip continuing to the back of the hump on frame above the stocks. The butt however is not worn which again suggests at least a fair amount of handling on the other areas.
The cylinder has some play, hammer back/trigger pulled, and the left side of the forcing cone, not quite half-way, shows evidence from the front of cylinder sliding across whilst being closed w/arm pointing down. Fair amount of usage that should benefit from being shimmed.
Regardless of whatever the P denotes it is interesting/enjoyable to search on sites as this that provide threads as the Victory aiding tremendously in comparing similarities.
As others have provided jeweled hammer/triggers & raised add-on ribs were somewhat common in customizing back in the day. The most interesting feature of the Ken Maynard set to me was the consecutive SN's albeit not on the butt.
I think I'll step in the backyard and fire off a few rounds.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I didn't read through all your previous posts, but what did you find unusual about the P? I didn't notice a picture, but if you are talking about one that looks like the one in the attached photo, that would be a standard military P proof which can be found on pretty much all Victorys, BSR and US, early on the butt, starting in 1943 in the location you describe plus a couple others.
Attachments
OP
Nicksterdemus
Member
That's the P in question. I noted on some Vic pics that it wasn't present. I tried to figure why some did others didn't by a limited sample. It along w/V is also stamped on the cylinder face. Makes sense about standing for proof.
Thanks!
Thanks!
OP
Nicksterdemus
Member
Thanks again Bob for that heads-up and to everyone else that contributed to this thread. For the sake of the KM pair and others that might run across a similar style Victory I share results I found.
http://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/62/1688/smith-wesson-victory#detail
Sold RIA lot 1688 9/12/14 $1265.
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/63/3504/smith-wesson-victory#detail
Selling: RIA lot 3504 12/5/14 unsold.
http://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/64/666/smith-wesson-victory#detail
Sold RIA lot 666 4/24/15 $3737.50
It's a cryin' shame there's no KM on my Victory butt. I'm curious if another KM Victory will surface. As well the possibility that mine might have been a set at one time or perhaps a KM prototype of sorts.
Regardless, it's interesting for me to speculate and since I've no way to prove anything other than a modded arm I can shoot to me 'earts desire.
Here's a couple of pics of one of the KM Victory ribs. ETA: then mine for a side X side.
The KM front site is cut at the back to blend in w/taper on the raised rib. Where mine is notched to be flush on the flat before the taper.
It apperas that the KM version rib is taller and perhaps the front site came w/rib. Or the rib had a "sight" extention on the bottom that fit into the brl site groove and then the original sight was cut and fitted or a new one fabricated.
For mine to be closer the rib would need to be longer allowing the back cut on the sight to extend to the barrel and notched to slide under the sight allowing the back cut to flow w/taper on the rib. electroplated
Attachments
Last edited:
On many of these the P is on the butt, maybe more than on the frame. At least I've seen more on the butt.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Jim:
It's simply a matter of the time period and the type of the Victory. All BSR's and most Navy US versions got one P on the butt into 1943. DSC guns didn't generally. From Nov. 1943 for the BSR and Jan. 1944 for Army contract US Victorys, three P proofs were being applied to frame, cylinder, and barrel flat. According to Pate, DSC Victorys didn't get any P proofs, but I see quite a few late ones with the three P's and have one myself.
OP
Nicksterdemus
Member
Thanks for the contributions gents. Most of what I'm looking at are pics online. Limited number of samples and not being in hand I have to settle for the views available.
For me the 'P' was in many respects the same as the R on my 1917. Clueless, I started the hunt for R October thread to glean as many responses as possible.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/85189-1917-hunt-r-october.html
Repair, rework, refinish & return all sounded plausible.
For me the 'P' was in many respects the same as the R on my 1917. Clueless, I started the hunt for R October thread to glean as many responses as possible.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/85189-1917-hunt-r-october.html
Repair, rework, refinish & return all sounded plausible.
Attachments
Neat looking rib.
Late to the thread, but I'd offer that the rib is a solid piece of steel. Silver soldered (hard soldered) to the bbl. Done with the bbl removed from the frame of course. The slight gap betw the back end of the rib and the bbl allowed a bit of the silver solder to show afterwards.
I'd bet the fit of the inside curve of that extremely thin portionof the back end of the rib to the round bbl wasn't exactly a premier fit. The extra hard solder in that area helps support the very thin steel rib there as well as attach it.
Silver solder will stand up to hot salt blue just fine (if that's what they used),,soft lead/tin solder will degrade from it and loose it's strength after a time.
No problems with rust blue of course with either soft or hard solder.
Silver (hard) solder won't take bluing,,either hot salt or rust blue. It stays it's yellow color and will depend on the alloy of solder used of which there are hundreds.
If the bluing is rust blue, the carding wheel operation necessary after each cycle would give the tiny bit of hard solder exposed a grainy, matted appearance,
Doubt if it's brass/brazed on, that'd be way over kill in the heat dept nearing welding temps.
The cross hatch marks on the top of the rib are all hand cut,,hammer and chisel. No machine work there.
Not a big deal for most any engraver and fairly fast to do. The chisel cut cross hatching would have been done after the rib was attached to the bbl. It would have needed either a perfect supporting fit at that thin back end,,or what I suspect is that extra layer of hard solder built up underneath that area that you see exposed slightly. Or else the surface can cave in on you.
Something you run into doing initial shields inlayed into gunstocks occaasionally. You never know how thick the metal is or how it's backed up unless you've done the install yourself.
There's a tiny faint 'witness mark' on the frame top front edge, right side of the back end of the rib (first pic). That was used during fitting up the rib, centering it at 12 o'clock and would have probably been used when reinstalling the bbl back in the frame when done.
Late to the thread, but I'd offer that the rib is a solid piece of steel. Silver soldered (hard soldered) to the bbl. Done with the bbl removed from the frame of course. The slight gap betw the back end of the rib and the bbl allowed a bit of the silver solder to show afterwards.
I'd bet the fit of the inside curve of that extremely thin portionof the back end of the rib to the round bbl wasn't exactly a premier fit. The extra hard solder in that area helps support the very thin steel rib there as well as attach it.
Silver solder will stand up to hot salt blue just fine (if that's what they used),,soft lead/tin solder will degrade from it and loose it's strength after a time.
No problems with rust blue of course with either soft or hard solder.
Silver (hard) solder won't take bluing,,either hot salt or rust blue. It stays it's yellow color and will depend on the alloy of solder used of which there are hundreds.
If the bluing is rust blue, the carding wheel operation necessary after each cycle would give the tiny bit of hard solder exposed a grainy, matted appearance,
Doubt if it's brass/brazed on, that'd be way over kill in the heat dept nearing welding temps.
The cross hatch marks on the top of the rib are all hand cut,,hammer and chisel. No machine work there.
Not a big deal for most any engraver and fairly fast to do. The chisel cut cross hatching would have been done after the rib was attached to the bbl. It would have needed either a perfect supporting fit at that thin back end,,or what I suspect is that extra layer of hard solder built up underneath that area that you see exposed slightly. Or else the surface can cave in on you.
Something you run into doing initial shields inlayed into gunstocks occaasionally. You never know how thick the metal is or how it's backed up unless you've done the install yourself.
There's a tiny faint 'witness mark' on the frame top front edge, right side of the back end of the rib (first pic). That was used during fitting up the rib, centering it at 12 o'clock and would have probably been used when reinstalling the bbl back in the frame when done.
OP
Nicksterdemus
Member
Thanks for sharing an interpretation from your experiences. Always enjoy differing takes and various aspects of others.
W/bright noon sun aft and a 10X loupe the solder/flux looks dull, yellow and grainy. To me anyway. Fifty years or so of exposure and tarnish makes it hard for me to imagine how it looked new.
Solid steel rib makes sense. Appears sturdy and well constructed. The border is fairly true w/cross hatching showing various degrees of variance in width and runout at the border. Sometime they cross before the border and other times they meet at the border.
Far better craftsmanship than I could muster though I do wonder why 1/4" was cut off the muzzle.
W/bright noon sun aft and a 10X loupe the solder/flux looks dull, yellow and grainy. To me anyway. Fifty years or so of exposure and tarnish makes it hard for me to imagine how it looked new.
Solid steel rib makes sense. Appears sturdy and well constructed. The border is fairly true w/cross hatching showing various degrees of variance in width and runout at the border. Sometime they cross before the border and other times they meet at the border.
Far better craftsmanship than I could muster though I do wonder why 1/4" was cut off the muzzle.
Last edited:
Similar threads
- Locked
Expired/Withdrawn
F/S Excam TA-38 Derringer . 38 special derringer .
