Need 38 S&W info
- Thread starter F4D
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
It has a Canadian property mark, as well as British commercial proof marks applied in ... well, hard to tell what the letters beside the crossed swords are. It was overhauled in 1953 and probably acquired a very British coat of black paint at that time. The 38/380 mark was supposed to tell people that it would accept the .380 service cartridge (as the British usually called it), some .38 Specials being reamed out for the purpose.
I can't quite make out the serial number from the angle of the photo, but that seems to be a British military contract revolver; if the first three digits are 887, it is from 1941. If the first three digits are 987, it is from early 1942 before April, as that is when the serial number sequence was reset for the second million of this model. The new numbering sequence had a V prefix and guns with that prefix are referred to as Victory models. Since your gun is a wartime contract gun without a V prefix, many would call it a Pre-Victory.
The general model is called the S&W Military & Police or Model of 1905, Fourth change. These were made in great numbers during the 20th century and as a group remain the most successful model S&W ever made. The basic chambering for these was the .38 S&W Special, but the British ordered guns that chambered the .38/200 cartridge, which involved a 200 gr bullet in the shorter .38 S&W case. The two cases are different lengths and slightly different diameters. After the war, many British guns were converted to 38 Special by boring out the charge holes to the length of a .38 Special case; you should check your gun to see if it chambers a .38 Special round. If not, then it is an unmolested .38 S&W revolver. From a collector's point of view, that is good.
There is a big collector's market for WWII S&Ws, partly because so many were made that it is not too expensive to get involved in collecting them. But there are many identified sub-varieties, and guns with uncommon features can achieve high values.
At least one of the proof marks on the gun (up arrow inside a C) is a Canadian mark. BNP stands for Birmingham Nitro Proof. Once released from military duty, decommissioned revolvers had to be proofed under British law before they could be released to the civilian market. That's were most of the markings on your gun come in.
There are Victory specialists on the forum who know way more about these guns than I do, and I suspect you will hear from them shortly. That looks like a pretty nice specimen to me, and I hope it has not been converted to take .38 Special.
The general model is called the S&W Military & Police or Model of 1905, Fourth change. These were made in great numbers during the 20th century and as a group remain the most successful model S&W ever made. The basic chambering for these was the .38 S&W Special, but the British ordered guns that chambered the .38/200 cartridge, which involved a 200 gr bullet in the shorter .38 S&W case. The two cases are different lengths and slightly different diameters. After the war, many British guns were converted to 38 Special by boring out the charge holes to the length of a .38 Special case; you should check your gun to see if it chambers a .38 Special round. If not, then it is an unmolested .38 S&W revolver. From a collector's point of view, that is good.
There is a big collector's market for WWII S&Ws, partly because so many were made that it is not too expensive to get involved in collecting them. But there are many identified sub-varieties, and guns with uncommon features can achieve high values.
At least one of the proof marks on the gun (up arrow inside a C) is a Canadian mark. BNP stands for Birmingham Nitro Proof. Once released from military duty, decommissioned revolvers had to be proofed under British law before they could be released to the civilian market. That's were most of the markings on your gun come in.
There are Victory specialists on the forum who know way more about these guns than I do, and I suspect you will hear from them shortly. That looks like a pretty nice specimen to me, and I hope it has not been converted to take .38 Special.
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2007
- Messages
- 27,669
- Reaction score
- 21,359
The 53 FTR stamping on the rear sideplate is similar to Australian .38/200s I have seen, but the stampings are usually on the lower frame near the "Made in U.S.A". It indicates "factory thorough repair" in 1953.
927xxx should still leave it in early 1942.
It will be interesting to figure out how the Canadian markings got there. I'm looking forward to reading what others say about this gun with that set of markings.
It will be interesting to figure out how the Canadian markings got there. I'm looking forward to reading what others say about this gun with that set of markings.
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2010
- Messages
- 4
- Reaction score
- 0
Don't mean to hi-jack the thread but I have one like this also, the serial starts with 887, and has 'United States Property' stamped on the top,
Here are some of my Images : 38 Smith - a set on Flickr
Was wondering what it was worth? My Dad, a WWII vet, had it for a long time. [3rd Army, 26th Division, 104th Inf. walked to Bastogne...]
Still shoots fine and the action is smoother than most modern autos I have...just ammo is getting hard to find for it.
Here are some of my Images : 38 Smith - a set on Flickr
Was wondering what it was worth? My Dad, a WWII vet, had it for a long time. [3rd Army, 26th Division, 104th Inf. walked to Bastogne...]
Still shoots fine and the action is smoother than most modern autos I have...just ammo is getting hard to find for it.
Attachments
Last edited:
GR2k, welcome to the forum.
The 887xxx serial number points to late 1941, and this appears to be another Pre-Victory produced under the lend-lease agreement from earlier that year. I take it from your comments that this one has not been converted to .38 Special. From a collector's point of view that is good, but it also probably limits your market mostly to collectors. People who just want a reliable .38 shooter will be looking for a .38 special.
Depending on condition, these unaltered pre-Victories are probably $250-400 guns. A lot depends on demand.
The 887xxx serial number points to late 1941, and this appears to be another Pre-Victory produced under the lend-lease agreement from earlier that year. I take it from your comments that this one has not been converted to .38 Special. From a collector's point of view that is good, but it also probably limits your market mostly to collectors. People who just want a reliable .38 shooter will be looking for a .38 special.
Depending on condition, these unaltered pre-Victories are probably $250-400 guns. A lot depends on demand.
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2010
- Messages
- 4
- Reaction score
- 0
Thanks David,
Was not really going to sell it since it is a 'legacy' firearm of my father (who is still alive BTW) just wanted to put a value on it. Yeah it is 38 S&W only. Not in bad shape and fires clean and accurate for it's age, just hate paying about a buck a shot for ammo is all...
Was not really going to sell it since it is a 'legacy' firearm of my father (who is still alive BTW) just wanted to put a value on it. Yeah it is 38 S&W only. Not in bad shape and fires clean and accurate for it's age, just hate paying about a buck a shot for ammo is all...
Art Doc
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
It's not worth $50. You already know about when it was made.
